Uninsured man’s legal effort falls short - Bonner County Daily Bee: Local News

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Uninsured man’s legal effort falls short

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Posted: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:00 am

SANDPOINT — An uninsured Sagle man’s legal effort to steer clear of a $22,000 medical bill is being dismissed on technical grounds.

David J. Ross applied for medical assistance through Bonner County because he was indigent and unable to cover the cost of his treatment for congestive heart failure.

Commissioners agreed to cover the Bonner General Hospital bill and set up a payment plan for Ross to reimburse the county. Ross objected to the approval of his application for assistance, contending he has no way of paying the money back and that the hospital agreed to write off his treatment costs.

Commissioners, as a matter of law, ruled that BGH’s uncompensated care write-off program is not considered a resource under the Idaho medical indigency statutes.

Ross filed a petition for judicial review of the matter, but the county moved to dismiss the petition because it was not filed within 28 days of the board’s decision. Ross filed his petition five days too late, 2nd District Judge Jeff Brudie said in a written ruling issued on Feb. 4.

“Though the Court’s preference is for a full merit-based conclusion, this Court is nevertheless without jurisdiction to hear the petition seeking review of the Board’s Order,” Brudie wrote.

The county argued Ross should be ordered to pay its legal fees on grounds that his petition was filed frivolously. Brudie, however, rejected that claim and found that Ross, who represented himself in court, simply made an “unfortunate” error as a pro se litigant.

Ross moved on Feb. 14 for Brudie to reconsider the denial of petition. The motion is pending.

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  • L Wallace posted at 1:47 pm on Fri, Feb 22, 2013.

    L Wallace Posts: 1369

    Thanks MichaelN and Todd Allen, I tried to have a calm conversation but I am not surprised when this happens in the clash of two ideologies. Rd did as well as many of her ideology in defending their position. Our discussion was a good demonstration of the differences & how the two sides deal with the issues and facts. MichaelN did point out that Rd's point was that Canadians do not tip. That could be true, I don't know about that or possible reasons for it. Tips are voluntary not mandatory.

    Wilson, maybe you are right that Rd is "a fiction of her -his- imagination", I do notice some suspect statements. For sure, men are from Mars and many women are from Venus or at least another planet. There are other possible medical explanations so I will just wish her well and drop it.

  • wilson posted at 9:33 am on Fri, Feb 22, 2013.

    wilson Posts: 1076

    It is becoming obvious that Health Care is not the problem for a lot of people. Mental Care for some (rd) needs to become mandatory. A good Mental Care system, coupled with spelling and reasoning classes, will go a long way in our society -- It is becoming obvious that red dawn is more a fiction of her -his- imagination than real life -

  • MichaelN posted at 9:26 am on Fri, Feb 22, 2013.

    MichaelN Posts: 502

    Wow, reddawn, I freely admit that women sometimes throw a curveball at men, and even the best of the best can't make contact, but your ball is not even in the ballpark. I would suggest that you take more time with your thoughts and articulate more when writing. I vowed to stop reading your posts long ago, but I respect Mr. Wallace, and if he has the patience to engage you in conversation, I feel obliged to at least read your posts as well as his. You may well have good points, but you struggle to put them in writing.

    I'm out on a limb here saying that the problem you see with Canadians is that they are visiting our wonderful little town, and they are not accustomed to tipping, so the wait staff in Sandpoint is suffering from all of the Canadian tourism and their eating out??? I respectfully disagree.

    I gotta hand it to you L. Wallace!

  • Todd Allen posted at 8:44 am on Fri, Feb 22, 2013.

    Todd Allen Posts: 210

    @reddawn why don't you answer Mr. Wallace? He took the time to provide you facts on minimum wage and you choose to ramble on again. You expect him to answer your questions yet you don't give him the respect (which he has earned on here) to answer his. Typical spin mode.

  • reddawn posted at 11:10 pm on Thu, Feb 21, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1716

    wallace it is known that men cannot keep up with women, we are known for being able to move threw conversations as well as multi task. So Wilson it seems you have all the answers about our countries health care problem. lets start by stripping Medicare and freeze your S.S bennies from this day forward, but first lets start by cutting off your Medicare so you can pay your own insurance at what we pay for our own. So lets hear your plan for the rest of us. We are all aware you didnt pay in Medicare of what you will need for surgery. And pray you dont have a heart problem that runs around 135,000 to replace valves. After all it is the old that cost the Federal government so much money. So I will await your plan for Americans to afford medical insurance. And just maybe you can show some repect, if you want to understand a sentence I have spoke just ask me what do you mean or what are you saying. I know it hard for some of you to get answers without trashing someone but just maybe you could learn to ask without thinking of what I have said. Fact Candians dont tip, so what do you think of how servers feel about that.

  • L Wallace posted at 9:49 pm on Thu, Feb 21, 2013.

    L Wallace Posts: 1369

    What was that noise? Oh, it must have been the sonic boom as Reddawn's post flew overhead. [wink]

    R.dawn made exaggerated statements in a minimum wage context ( see 8:26 am post below) about low wages in "all businesses" in our area, I challenged those low wage statements (1:47 pm). In answer she introduced Scott Walker (4:08 pm below) who is as far away as one can get from our area or our supposed low wages "in all businesses".

    I discussed low or minimum wages in our area and she discussed health care with a referrence to something about wages or health care in Canada. Wow, anybody know what she is talking about? Anybody know anything about how Canada affects America in wages & tips or health care costs??

    Then she drifts off into californians moving to Idaho and into bamboo flooring and new technology. If that is not enough she brings in organic apples and gardens.

    Scott S. noticed this and asked what Rick Scott has to do with any of this subject. Reddawn answered with a bunch more on health care and how wonderful it will be when everyone is on free health care that costs no one and we will be able to shop for supposedly cheaper health care administered by an over-bloated government.

    R.dawn did say the truth when she said - "Just ask you insurance company he or she will gladly tell you about our blessed area who pays for the folks who are not making enough to pay for the hospital bills we are! Why they cannot afford it, so we pay for it."--

    So my friends you see everyone already had health care through all of us paying higher insurance premiums for those who had no insurance and went to the emergency room for health care.

    Recently, in another post I made the observation that the liberal mantra is never do with your own ($) that which you can do with other's ($). Liberals don't like paying higher insurance premiums so the indigents can have health care so they are trying to shift those costs onto the supposed rich in an effort to avoid the costs by spreading the wealth of someone else around.

    Redawn's health care case is that setting up a whole government bureaucracy, putting on a thousand new IRS agents AND putting 11 to 15 million more folks onto government health care will be cheaper than it was. See R.dawn's 8:14 post below. All I can say is WOW.

  • reddawn posted at 8:14 pm on Thu, Feb 21, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1716

    Rick Scott is the Gov of Florida. At one time he said he was not for Obamacare, Today he says he is, he probley did his homework and found it would save the tax payer more and our government. You pay more because of how insurance works. It takes an area like Sandpoint and looks at the age, the population, and how many people are not insured, thus costing the hospital cost go up in return costing us. We really only have two companies to do insuance threw.Can you imagine having several, or look at the Federal program that cost you less. Medicare has so much fraud that the gov is going to stop that, Dr will be all tied togather, test, cost of test, people with low incomes can get it as well thus costing us less so we dont have to pay more because hospitals cant afford free medical so insurance continues to rise because you and I have to pay the bill threw higher cost. If a person who makes 30,000 a year could buy insurance for 125.00 a month then they would. Welfare folks as well will have better care and seniors because they will have nurses visit in home and check meds and do blood test before they get so ill and the hospital and Dr dont take advantage of the program. They have already been doing test on this in poor neighborhoods. Got folks well, the wellness program. I pay 7,000 a year for four Dr visits. Wow tell me about it. I have spoke to the insurance companies every year on how they rip me off. They tell me where I live cost me. The age of Sandpoint cost me, the uninsured cost me. And of corse one more reason that has no cure. So I see the Dr once a year and I still have to pay out of pocket. I am looking forward to Obamacare so I can shop the market just like I do for my car and home insurance every year. The northwest pays more for insuance than Miss, Ok, Vir, and the south, that is not fair as well. Otter keeps talking about opening the doors in Idaho and has for two years and now they are still talking, if they say no to Obamacare and dont open the gates of compitition soon they will be forced to by 2014, but that takes money that we must pay for. They better hurry up I am tired of all talk and no walking the talk. So in this story the hospital will not right this off we will pay for it in higher premiums unless of corse you are on Medicare that we pay for. And it sounds as if your not there yet and if your blessed you will or if your a retired cop, or gov employee or work for the feds then we still make up for it in premiums. Obamcare will take the cost down, so a asprin will not cost 25.00 in the hospital, so again this story is one that we have been aware of, how many do you think we dont hear off, many. Just ask you insurance company he or she will gladly tell you about our blessed area who pays for the folks who are not making enough to pay for the hospital bills we are! Why they cannot afford it, so we pay for it.

  • Scott S posted at 7:09 pm on Thu, Feb 21, 2013.

    Scott S Posts: 388

    Who is Rick Scott and why is his name being brought up? My insurance went up 25 percent for this year and will go up another 25 percent next year. No increase in coverage of course.

  • reddawn posted at 4:08 pm on Thu, Feb 21, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1716

    Wallace First I would like to say that Gov Rick Scott decided to support Obamcare. His reason was he didnt want to see low income folks not to get good health care. . Secound , In Canada tips are unheard of, when living in CDA I owned a very successful business close to the hotel. Many servers would be in tears due to the law that states your gross food plates that evening were taxed by Federal Law, so many times they would make only .50 an hour. Canada was part of this reason. So imagine a night at 1200.00 in food, take 11% of that then - your small wage, then you dont even make that=.50 an hour. We all have to pay taxes this was a way to make sure those who make tips did their share. Idaho as well asumed.This is why many add it on. Alot of folks are not aware of this. Third, Yes our company hired over 100 people. They make between 3,000 to 6,000 a month. We will continue to help corps and employess. Most Corps can become creedy which in returns slows the companies quality to go down. So insentives create more productivity and more profit for all. Kind of like some Banks or morgage brokers, they get a share of the companies profit. It works the same in any business, share and watch what happens. You get what you pay for. Obama Care will help many people, it makes it possible for companies to shop the market plus get employess envolved to choose what and who they want as a provider, and share in the cost. Bringing compitition in the door. No matter if you work for a low wage you will pay a part of that according to your wage. Small business will really benifit, big corps have their own companies in partnership with care providers. Areas that have high tech companies can create very successful business. They make a great income and spend money for home,eat out, buy cars and so on. Sandpoint is going to be hirering up to 180 folks in the next few years who will make better money thus spending more money for local business. I give the city credit for that , they are the ones who succeeded bringing them into our area. We live in a time tech is important, everything we use has a computer behind the business thus we as Americans need our children educated for that. Right now we are bringing kids from other countries who are way ahead of us. New tech has made it possible to have bambo floors that will last a life time threw science engineers creating bonding materials that last, long with building a home, furniture ext. New tech, is on the way for using the sun, we here in Sandpoint have that as well moving forward to make a world free from oil. Many great things are going on, I am out their with it. I work hard at 60. However this is not my only job, my passion is growing organic apples, organic gardens, hay, along with many folks I know in Sandpoint, without chemicals like you did when you were growing up. I sold my business in CDA, moved here, a true Idaho person who at times I ask when I was so proud of this state I supported putting signs up in L.A called HTO clean water Idaho, then came all the California folks, 150 in one day called CDA. The point is I like the word WE, not all jobs are created equal, not all children are born equal. And you surely cannot take your money with you when you leave this planet. And Wallace I dont have spell check on my computor, and I dont have a lot of time to re read my words. And as far as taking you threw a lesson in economic lesson, it takes months to change a company around to get it. When you can take a company that does 135,000 a month to 1 million a month and everybody makes more then you have done your job, everybody wins. It is all based on being honest. No lies allowed!

  • L Wallace posted at 1:47 pm on Thu, Feb 21, 2013.

    L Wallace Posts: 1369

    Thanks Rd for the correction. You make a statement that seems exaggerated to me. You said "However if anyone knows it is just not our kids working for low wages, it is everyone, at all business." I know for a fact that Home Depot starting wage is above the proposed $9.00 / hr. amount, Wal-Mart is close also. The up-tick in unemployment (caused by high minimum wage) hits hard in the inexperienced youth sector. When you say "all businesses" I think you are greatly exaggerating.

    I do agree with you that the restaurants are back-door forcing patrons to fund their employees wages. Tips are for a job well done not for basic pay. I have no problem with the minimum wage applying to all restaurant and hotel workers. These are not inexperienced workers, hotels and restaurants do not hire the totally inexperienced. For that matter, neither the current minimum wage, nor the proposed minimum wage increase will apply to restaurant workers.

    From talking with waiters, I understand that the current minimum wage for restaurant waiters (or waitresses) is $3.50 per hour. It is assumed that there is an additional 15% average (tips) in income and taxes are held out for the 3.50 per hour plus 15% tips. I don't see how the 15% of their total charged check/ticket amount would reduce the minimum wage to $.50 cents per hour. It just never happens that there would be NO TIPS for a waiter/waitress. If there were no tips the waiter/waitress would soon lose their job. Could you take us through that economic lesson??

    Personally, if the service is good we tip BUT if the service is poor or non-existent the tip suffers accordingly. Some local restaurants lose control of their service & food quality in the evenings when business is slow.

    Last year during the election, you mentioned that you were going to go out and "hire a hundred people", how is that going, have you managed to hire them? It would also be interesting to know the wage you are paying them. I will tell you what I paid my employees (to encourage you to share) when I was in business before I retired in 2001. The last I paid for an experienced employee starting wage was $13.00 (per flat rate hour) with a $1.00 per hour annual raise, the most I paid by 2001 was $16.00 or $16.50 per flat rate hour. I tried to pay a couple $$ more than others in my industry to pay for their "benefits" of which they could buy whichever benefit they wanted or no benefits at all. Besides this I paid half of the S.S. retirement, their unemployment insurance, liability insurance to cover their work, plus any and all other costs required by Idaho or the Feds.

  • reddawn posted at 8:26 am on Thu, Feb 21, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1716

    You are right Wallace, I was responding to Wilson, After putting in twelve hour days at work and finally getting a day off names can fall togather. However if anyone knows it is just not our kids working for low wages, it is everyone, at all business. Our hotels our a big one, cleaning rooms,waiting on tables, they depend on tips to make up for the low wage, thats if they do. Anyone who has more than five employees in the food business takes the gross sales of the ticket of food served and takes tax out on the spot, if no one tips then the wage can drop to .50 an hour because it is assumed that folks tip 15%. Today many resturants have had to add it on because so many are not aware of this law, so next time you go out to eat just remember a 15% tip is needed of they work for nothing.

  • L Wallace posted at 11:04 pm on Wed, Feb 20, 2013.

    L Wallace Posts: 1369

    I must be "popular" when someone is answering me even though I didn't post on this thread. [wink] $7.25 is meant for a training wage for students or on the job training. If one is more than a few years into their career and have not moved from minimum wage training they should re-asses their education & skill level with an "eye" towards change. I recently saw a news item that stated, historically after a minimum wage increase there has been a "tick up in unemployment".

    I don't mind seeing the county help those needing medical care but when someone objects to the approval of his application and help offered (Quote) "Ross objected to the approval of his application", then I don't know what else can be done. Ross should have accepted the terms and if after his health care he cannot hold down a job & work he can get a doctor's orders and the county is just out or maybe they have insurance for this. Once a year passes Ross can apply to Obama care for the $$ for his (then) pre-existing condition.

    Subsidize that which you want more of. Way back in the 1960's we had the "Great Sciety" Program but society has not become great by most measures. Part of that program was some 40 programs including the "War on poverty" Program, sure enough within a couple of years we had more folks in poverty. Since then the more $$ spent on poverty the more poverty we have.

  • Todd Allen posted at 6:59 pm on Wed, Feb 20, 2013.

    Todd Allen Posts: 210

    Reddawn you stated not one of you have said $7.25 is not fine yet right below you Ski2work makes a fantastic point. If you are stuck at $7.25 an hour you need to reassess yourself. Try reading and it may make sense although you make NONE!! $7.25 and $9.00 is not a living wage, it is a minimum wage designed for those working at MCD and so forth. To repeat Ski2work if you are an adult making minimum wage you need to take a good look at the choices you have made in life.

  • reddawn posted at 6:32 pm on Wed, Feb 20, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1716

    NewDawn , Your thinking is why I am no longer a Republican, besides I was answering Wallace but you just couldn't help yourself and had to But in. Hey all of you are the most negative and first to call all liberals names. It is like you don't read well. Calling the kettle black I guess, and frankly we can agree on something we don't like each other, or do we visit our friends at the same time. Thank goodness! At times there are a few Republican's I have agreed with, you are not one of them.

  • NewDawn posted at 3:48 pm on Wed, Feb 20, 2013.

    NewDawn Posts: 936

    Reddawn - It appeared that you had folded your tent and retired - but I can see that
    you haven't. Tell me, what makes you so darn negative? Why is it that you hate successful
    people? Aren't they the ones whose taxes are making provisions for your poor which you are
    lamenting about? You say that only the Democrat-Big Shots (Microsoft, Buffett and movie
    stars) are the "big givers" - and we must not forget YOURSELF! Could it be that "the other
    side" gives to the needy without beating the drums????

    Your Republican bashing is getting a might old. Nobody on this blog said that $7.25 an hour
    wage was acceptable - you should "reassess yourself" is the remark ski2work made.

    As for your "storytellers" - who are they? Are you referring to Washington DC and its
    inhabitants? Reddawn,, you sure know how to spin the yarn..... are you one of them??


  • ski2work posted at 1:45 pm on Wed, Feb 20, 2013.

    ski2work Posts: 625

    Stuck at 7.25 an hour, eh? That's what kids get working McDonalds, adults should be more oriented to improving their work skills, by additional training and education, become a needed asset for the company. If you're stuck at 7.25 an hour, you need to reassess yourself.

  • reddawn posted at 1:07 pm on Wed, Feb 20, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1716

    Wilson just one more thing, I have worked for many poor people,years of giving to the poor, working in yards, painting a house, moving folks, paying for school and getting paided back, educating them about how to use every penny, teach them to grow food with seeds I give them, the list goes on and on, so to answer your question YES I have worked for many poor people, just like when I give to the food bank, I worked hard for the money to give to the poor, so Wilson you just asked a question I felt was pretty sad, however I have known many rich that think giving 100.00 dollars is giving to the poor, remember it is the middle income that are the big givers not the rich Republicans. Lots of Ds like Microsoft, Buffett, and movie stars who are big givers, and just maybe here at home in our back yard , Wild Rose foundation. and as of late some great Dentist and staff taking care of some of our kids teeth, they are the Heros. And so am I.

  • reddawn posted at 12:55 pm on Wed, Feb 20, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1716

    Wilson when was the last time you worked. When have you ever worked for big corps who lie and say dont tax us so we can hire more people. When you are not out there working with corps and employees you do not see it, you just get sucked into the story tellers. I work with big corps, just ask the folks at Wall mart how they are paided. Remind yourself the days are gone of the past, you do not work out there yet all of you Rs who dont have become stuck in lies of the big money story tellers. You have become stuck in your own life, the old ways, dont work, and alot of you think $7.25 an hour is just fine. Not one of you has said it is not. What a shame. Walk it, you just try it for three months without any other income and see how long you can handle living off of 7.25 an hour.you would find it is impossible, yet many of you have got so stuck in the world of Rush, Fox, and negitive folks you have already proclaimed that a 9:00 an hour wage will just create more takers. I see hope, you see distain for your brothers and sisters. I see love one another, you see loosers.
    That is why I am no longer a Republican. And of late Idaho is an example of what all dream about, less Government so why own a home, we will pay for what you say, somebody got to pay for our Police dept, our roads, our fire dept, and know you might get what you asked for. no more personal property tax on business which takes in the big boys, and we will pay. Wow watch what you say, so shall it be.

  • wilson posted at 11:50 am on Wed, Feb 20, 2013.

    wilson Posts: 1076

    The lie of job creators, reddawn? When was the last time you worked for a poor person? Take money from the wealthy and put in the government black hole and then see how many they will be able to employ - Look at the big picture-

  • reddawn posted at 8:50 am on Wed, Feb 20, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1716

    The affortable care act does not take place for adults until 2014, and only until this state says yes, or creates an open door to shop the market. Idaho has been doing alot of talking on opening the doors for two years,so all of us are still on the no walk the talk. All talk or just say no, no has become the only word they know, until Idaho people vote out the story tellers who continue to find ways to raise our taxes so the rich can pay none all under the lie of job creators we will continue being stupid.

  • ski2work posted at 9:21 pm on Tue, Feb 19, 2013.

    ski2work Posts: 625

    There's always ObamaCare...oh yeah, we are only paying for it, no one can get it.

  • Here's What I Say posted at 2:12 pm on Tue, Feb 19, 2013.

    Here's What I Say Posts: 1240

    Can't he apply for Medicaid? Do we now have a debt prison in the US or Idaho? What can anyone do to someone who has no resources? Make them homeless, starve them and deny medical care with the threat of jail if you don't pay? What will BC do if the fellow can't pay back his bill?