Sheriff pledges to protect Second Amendment - Bonner County Daily Bee: Local News

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Sheriff pledges to protect Second Amendment

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Posted: Friday, January 18, 2013 10:00 am

SANDPOINT — Bonner County Sheriff Daryl Wheeler is letting the public know where he stands as the debate over gun control rages in Washington, D.C.

“I’ve been a strong advocate of the Second Amendment and I’m always going to stand up to make sure that those rights are protected,” Wheeler said on Thursday.

As officials around the nation react to President Barack Obama’s $500 million effort to control gun violence in the wake of last month’s Sandy Hook massacre, Wheeler said his office has fielded a number of requests from the public asking what his position is on the issue.

In response, Wheeler posted a message to his department’s website which urges the public to reach out to local, state and federal officials to push back against 23 executive actions proposed by the Obama administration to enhance gun control regulations.

“I felt obligated to present my position,” said Wheeler.

Wheeler said in the posting that he took an oath of office on Monday to, among other things, uphold the U.S. Constitution.

“Nowhere in my oath did I agree to uphold the arbitrary wishes of a President who strays outside his Constitutional authority,” Wheeler said in the online message.

Obama’s proposal includes the establishment of universal background checks for gun buyers, and prohibiting military-style assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines.

Meanwhile, people in Bonner County are voicing concerns that the names and addresses of those who possess concealed weapons permits will be publicized by the media, as was done by The Journal News in New York state after the mass shootings in Newtown, Conn.

“I know that that’s been a topic of conversation around coffee shops and people I’ve talked to are wondering what’s going to happen here in Idaho,” Wheeler said.

There are currently 1,742 people in Bonner County with concealed weapons permits, according to sheriff’s office records.

But Wheeler said Idaho Code specifically prohibits his office from disclosing such information under the state’s public records law.

“That information absolutely will never be released from this office,” said Wheeler.

Wheeler’s contention is backed up by an email exchange between state Sen. Steve Bair, R-Blackfoot, and Assistant Chief Deputy Attorney General Brian Kane obtained by The Daily Bee.

Kane said in the Jan. 3 email that information regarding an applicant or licensee is deemed confidential under the Idaho Public Records Act.

“In other words, information gathered and maintained by the county sheriff or the state police for the purpose of processing and maintaining concealed weapons applications is exempt from disclosure to the public,” Kane wrote.

Wheeler said his office has not been presented with any public records requests for such information from news or other organizations.

The sheriff’s office, however, is seeing an uptick in applications for permits to carry a concealed weapon. Wheeler said his office has received 35 new applications and 10 renewals in the four last days.

“We’re issuing a lot of concealed weapons permits as a result of what’s happening in Washington, D.C.,” said Wheeler.

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  • Jaraco posted at 10:59 pm on Fri, Jun 21, 2013.

    Jaraco Posts: 1

    #Captaindan: All races are racist: brown, black, white, yellow, red.......doesn't matter. People prefer those they have more in common with, starting at color and moving on through language, religion and core beliefs.

    Sequestered tribalism is built right into the human genome and no amount of legislation is going to up-end this evolutionary blueprint And no, I'm not an advocate of this genome specific human characteristic.

    It took over two hundred thousand years to develop and I'm not saying the various races "got it right" by this thinking. I'm saying that three or four generations of so-called "enlightened" humans are not going to overcome this built-in preference overnight. Not without an individually internal "racial memory" fight.....and certainly not with just legislation alone. But it's a start.

    The really scary thing about all this is those in positions of power have long ago learned how to tap this phenomenon and keep specific groups at each other’s throats with it as a political tool. After all, if you keep them separated by race they will never unite against you.

    I am a highschool dropout and I could be completely wrong in all this, but I've been around for over 7 decades and it feels accurate to me. Long before Martin Luther King advocated it, I learned to judge people by their character, not their color. I have gained and benefited from knowing many truly wonderful, kind, intelligent, GOOD people of many races. Close, dear friends I genuinely cherish and would not trade for any amount.

    Seems nowadays if you don’t like someone of a different race, you’re racist. The assumption is automatically made that you don’t like them because of their skin color. Well, there ARE people I don’t like who are of a different race, but not BECAUSE of their race. I dislike them because they’re jerks. Black, brown or white, you can’t fix stupid. Or obnoxious. Or trailer-trash mentality.

  • bigdan posted at 11:33 am on Sun, Jan 27, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Captainsdan, what I find sad with people like you is you always seem to see racist whether they exist or not. Not every issue is about race. Now I also understand that yelling racism is really just a left wing of whistle however in the absence of any real proof, we can just chalk this up as yet another ridiculous charge or an attempt to make a fraudulent statement without proof. Where does the crazy stop?

    And the problem with the "cry wolf" crowd that can't seem to understand why anyone would disagree with the Messiah Obama so they must be racist is when we actually do see racism, everyone will have been desensitized due to people of your ilk constantly making the charge.

    And o follow up with Perki's comment, many in the black community claimed to vote for Obama based on the color of is skin. Where you shouting racism from the the rooftops after that or are only those who disagree with you racist?

    You need to read that George Washington U study. And for the record, I have Ben on subject and clearly racism charges are not.

  • Perki posted at 9:50 am on Sun, Jan 27, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    Dan, I responded to the racist statement with the following on 11/19 @11:09

    As for you IDIOTS that are trying to turn this into a race issue I suggest you check the percentages of the black voters that voted for Obama compared to any other group. Then tell me who the actual racist in this country are.

  • captaindan posted at 5:21 pm on Sat, Jan 26, 2013.

    captaindan Posts: 1059

    So your finally back on subject, In twenty years of living here,I simply observe and listen to people. Just look at who choose to live her. People make that choice for many reasons, one of them is demographics. The last census reported that bonner county is 96% white. For those that prefer to not interact with a minority population, North Idaho is perfect. Now this will get you really going, One of the reasons Ex-law enforcement move here in droves is because given the fact that lots of their carreer they have delt with the black population, this is a place that has very little minority population. No one will outright tell you they are racist. After the election of a black president, It's clear that much of the opposition to his policies is what I call suttle racism. Lots of folk cloak themselves from the label, but there's something called "preaching to the choir" I'm my opionon, that is what Wheeler was doing. Can I prove he's racist? Not without an admision from Him, but intelligent folk can read between the lines. I know you'll say not everybody that disagees with the president, is racsist. That's true, but so is my statement that people don't advertise their racism, but it can be deduced from what they say. Wheeler had to know that some folks including me, might come to believe, given the total context of his background, position and subject matter, that he might subtey be racist. Hey Wheeler, Obama will be black for four more years, better get use to it. Go ahead, pile on, ready- get set- GO

  • bigdan posted at 1:58 pm on Sat, Jan 26, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Can you stop whining? There how was that?

    Again, no one hijacked anything. Obviously we are not stopping you from posting.

    And there it is "Standing on the high ground looking down, just makes your fall that much more painfull."

    Your self importance is comical.

    So lets look at your first post on Jan 19.

    Captaindan 9:44 am Jan 19 wrote:
    "The wonderful thing about the suttle racism of elected law enforcment is that eventually they commit political suicide by anouncing it on the front page of the Paper."

    Now I noticed no one acknowledged your comments as I'm sure most thought trying to bring racism into this was ridiculous at best and is one of the oldest Left Wing tactics. Did that upset you that no one commented on your comment?

    So here is your chance, show us the proof you have that our Sheriff is a racist.

    Bottom line is you made a statement of a rather personal nature about our Sheriff that had no basis in fact nor did you offer any evidence to support it. After your initial statement you chose to just attack other posters instead of offering either support for your outrageous and immature comments or to counter other posters posts.

  • captaindan posted at 12:19 pm on Sat, Jan 26, 2013.

    captaindan Posts: 1059

    Can you not make a point in a paragraph or two,whats with all these long winded responses? I tried to offer some counter opinion to what clearly was a sad supporting arguement of wheeler's absurd statements about his personal opinion on a political issue. Only when your clan decided to hijack the thread and beat down every view that didn't agree with you, that I felt the need to respond to you personally. Standing on the high ground looking down, just makes your fall that much more painfull.

  • bigdan posted at 11:05 am on Sat, Jan 26, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Captaindan, to properly make a judgment, since you seem dead set on being judgmental with regard to my character, one would be best suited to look at my positions on more than one topic, my lifestyle, the kinds of people I surround myself with, my charitable giving or the lack there of, how I interrelate with other humans, along with many other parts of my life. You would need to know things about my past that had shaped my character as well. You would also want to interview my friends and acquaintances, both personal and business as they are the best judge of who I am based not what I say but what I do. Without all that information you are merely exposing yourself as a pompous know it all who thinks they know what they don't know.

    Here is what I know from your posts. You fail to offer a cogent argument but instead go for personal attacks on other poster and demand they be silenced. So from that I can only believe that there is a deep rooted fascist component to your personality. You are myopic to believe you have the only answer yet know deep down inside you can't substantiate your position as it's based not in fact but in emotion. And to be completely myopic, instead of looking at the information I've presented and offer a counter argument for us all to debate, you relegate yourself to continued attacks that have no real merit or value.

    Unlike you, I enjoy Bob and others who don't agree with me and welcome the debate. It forces me to do more research and study and at times I actually learn from those that don't agree with me. Unlike you, I see the value in debate and choose not to live in an echo chamber. And when challenged I choose to rise to the challenge, offering coherent arguments with supporting information.

    And if offering a counter position is somehow ganging up and insulting, then it is clear that you are not interested in finding real solutions or truth but prefer to live in that echo chamber where the only voices you hear support the reverberating echo's within your own head.

    Again, I am not stopping anyone from posting and welcome the debate however, if you are going to make comments that cannot be supported with facts, you need to expect those who posses some facts to rebut. It's what makes humanity better.

    As far as a life, at the moment I am disabled. I have been on my back for the most part the last four weeks healing from an injury so yes, I have nothing better to do than read your BS and wonder where you think you get off.

    And if you think I have offered facts that you believe are incorrect, all you need do is show me the evidence and I will accept your facts as facts. I await your information

  • captaindan posted at 9:50 am on Sat, Jan 26, 2013.

    captaindan Posts: 1059

    Seriously, With over sixty posts on this thread alone, I can't make a judgment on your character? With only about a halve a dozen of my posts you seem to think you know all about me, because us liberal minds are such simpeltons, and your conservative mind is so intelligent. Without Bob and a few others you guys would be talking into a mirror. You seem to think your facts and your truth make you right. I've ask you to give it a rest, so others feel they can post without your gang insulting them for having a view that differs, but thats not likely,as this seems like the only life you have.

  • bigdan posted at 8:57 am on Sat, Jan 26, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Captainsdan, I am dismissive of those who question my character without having ever met or spent time with me. I'm sure you must believe that you can make derogatory comment about a poster and they should just remain silent, but that's not how it works in the real world is it. So you can rebut, but if anyone rebuts your rebuttal it's a character flaw? Did you get your physc. Degree out of a crackerjacks box?

    Seriously, present some facts to support your argument or just keep bantering, I really don't care.

    I do enjoy your continued response as its a window into the workings of the liberal mind. Certainly you re right and clearly it's everyone else who is wrong LOL.

  • bigdan posted at 8:48 am on Sat, Jan 26, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Scooter, two different instances. 1) locked the gate, trapping their vehicle while parking my truck on the other end of their vehicle to keep the from leaving. Called the sheriff and yes, I was armed. 2) photographed license plate and called sheriff. And yes, again I was armed for protection on my own property from those who trespass and poach.

    I allow folks to hunt on our property with permission. I don't charge anything but they are also required to run off or report anyone who trespasses. Every year we typically have to run out 3-6 people. We are on 560 acres with too many Whitetail, along with Elk, Moose and Bear.

  • Scoobey posted at 8:18 am on Sat, Jan 26, 2013.

    Scoobey Posts: 939

    In answer to your question, Dan - yes, it does sound silly to suggest that you go back in your past and turn someone in. Had you said it was something in your past, I wouldn't have suggested it. However, the story you told was not set in the past, so my suggestion was for you to follow your own advice when you said, "And if you have a legitimate claim and the evidence to back it up, why aren't you calling for at least an investigation?"

    What I DO think sounds silly is for you to expect me to believe that you (who can parse the meaning of the 2nd amendment down to the punctuation level, and interpret both its literal and contextual meaning, and cite FBI crime statistics and university studies) can't clearly distinguish, in your own writing, between something that is currently happening and something that was happening 45-ish years ago (when you were how old, about 5 or 10?).

    Bravo for turning in those poachers - I'm curious, though, as to how you "detained" (restrained or held in custody) them. Handcuffs? At gunpoint?

  • Old Cop posted at 8:13 am on Sat, Jan 26, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    Don't worry about it Scoobey I have more problems by far with that sort of thing than Dan. It comes with age. You may be of danger also. I've noticed that paying union dues really speeds up the process. I don't know what it is about it but the problem is certainly exacerbated by paying dues.
    Hey Dan: Forty years ago my kid brother, a bean counter, was the City Manager for Roseburg.
    My dad was a hound dog man. He primarily enjoyed listening to them run fox but during the depression bounty hunting provided us with a significant part of our income. We turned in over a hundred coyote scalps most years. I killed a large number of both bear and mountain lion back in the forties using a 22 rifle and firing 22 shorts. Lots of pigs and more than a few Blacktail fell prey to that old Savage 22. We hunted every acre between the Rogue River and the Umpqua in those years with and without dogs.

  • captaindan posted at 8:51 pm on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    captaindan Posts: 1059

    It's all about the banter for you guys, You are so easy to suck into a tit for tat argument. Rather then reading and responding you simply gang up and pile on. If being dismissive of those who would question your character is the only response you have, your out of bullets. Since I got fed up with you ranting, you have spent most of your postings trying to defend yourself. Anyone with a limited understanding of human nature, will read this and know that in a discussion over differing opinions, the one who talks the most has the least to say.

  • Scoobey posted at 7:49 pm on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    Scoobey Posts: 939

    OldCop, how is your BS detector working these days?

    Dan seems to be having a little trouble keeping his verb tenses (and his story) straight, but he didn't have that trouble a few days ago. He wrote:

    "Bob, when I LIVED (past tense) in the Napa Valley I DID (past tense) load some 60 gr. .223 rounds that I successfully TOOK (past tense) three Blacktail deer in three consecutive seasons. One shot each. I also USED (past tense) it to assist land owners to reduce coyotes just as I DO on our property TODAY."

    Dan continued, in the next sentence, "I HAVE (present tense) a couple of friends from Oregon that USE (present tense) a .22 pistol to hunt bear with, not my cup of tea but they ARE (present tense) successful on a regular bases."

    Now, this is something his friends (or maybe they're not his friends, as he doesn't for a fact even know where they live anymore) did over FORTY YEARS AGO (and when it was legal, mind you). Oh, and by the way, Dan says that a .22 or larger centerfire rifle is legal to hunt bear with now, even though he said .22 pistol then, meaning now... or 40 years ago... or something or other... I'm so CONFUSED!

  • bigdan posted at 2:45 pm on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Current Oregon regs allow taking a bear with a .22 or larger centerfire rifle.

  • bigdan posted at 2:43 pm on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Captaindan, again, this format is not a finite space nor are their time restrictions. If you paid attention you would know that I don't beat anyone. I do respond when someone challenges me, as you have.

    I refer to your comments more as a drive by insult than someone who really has a supported opinion. Furthermore you prove your intent with your own comments. You have an opinion and that is great however when presented with facts that contradict your opinion you quickly move into personal attack mode and call for my ability to post be reduced as you feel yours is much more important.

    I have no issue with you having a different opinion however don't expect me or others to just sit back and listen to folks spread info that is not true or can be supported.

    Put on your big boy pants pal.....

  • MichaelN posted at 1:42 pm on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    MichaelN Posts: 502

    Ahh captaindan, you proved our point exactly. You just don't like the message. I would never call for Bob W to have his posts reduced because he leans so far to the left and there is absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing that Obama has done that Bob does not agree with. I think Obama could get away with anything and Bob would support it, but I wouldn't call for banning Bob from posting.

    So why do you want to limit Dan? Because you don't like what he is saying.

  • captaindan posted at 1:28 pm on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    captaindan Posts: 1059

    Big d, your entitled to post what ever view you have. It's only when you start to beating people over the head with it, that I object. Fairness and respect for time and space of others is all I have asked for. Apparently You cannot see that as a reasonable position. I watch, read and listen to every different view out there, so I can make informed opinions. I great thing about America is that with each opinion comes a vote. It must be tough losing back to back elections with opinions like yours. Yacking from the sidelines is all you got left.

  • bigdan posted at 10:30 am on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    MichealN, Captaindan isn't really concerned about the number of posts I've made but rather at the content that differs from his opinion. It's sad really that he throws up this straw man argument especially in light of the fact that my many posts don't keep anyone from also posting.

    The reason the Bee doesn't have ridiculous rules like that is that they are interested in seeing the debate happen, not restricting one side or the other. Folks like captaindan do have an opinion, however they can't stand it when others with differing opinions post.

    Captaindan, with regard to my facts, if you had read the info I posted, you would find it easy to google everything that I put up as supporting information. Instead it appears you don't want your opinions challenged with some facts and that really saddens me.

    This is once again part of a classic left wing strategy. Instead of participating in the debate, attack the opposition and if that doesn't work try to marginalize or eliminate their voice. Thanks Captaindan for supporting the George Washington study results.

  • bigdan posted at 10:25 am on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Scoobey, those Oregon hunters were hunting bear with dogs back in the late 60's before that law was enacted. I would never hunt bears with a 22. I also have a friend in California that hunts wild pigs with just a large knife. He invited me along and I refused and I think he might be just a bit crazy. I have hunted wild boar and if not using dogs, prefer a .45-70 as I don't want to take a chance of getting hooked up by those teeth.

    These Oregon friends would use dogs to corner the bear and shoot it behind the ear. I don't for a fact even know if they are still in or around the Roseburg area however at the time, they certainly weren't hiding their activities.

    Now I can tell you that I have detained poachers hunting out of season on my property and gave info on two sets of men who 1) killed an Elk 2 weeks after the season was over on the back side of my property and 2) killed a trophy white tail the day before deer season and took only the horns.

    Going back in my past to find and turn in someone from another state just sound a bit silly doesn't it?

  • Old Cop posted at 10:09 am on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    If some friends of yours in Nevada told you they had books they had taken from their school library would you feel obligated to call their school district and inform them of the fact? What would they do? What would you do in their shoes? It would analogous to the way Oregon Fish and Game would react. I don't think much of a man that doesn't have a little Evel Knievel in his genotype. That doesn't mean I'm raring to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle or hunt bear with a sling shot. But more power to them that do

  • MichaelN posted at 10:00 am on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    MichaelN Posts: 502

    Bob, thank you for putting my parents in the same category as J.K. Rowling. I enjoy the books, but not so much the movies. Our family, friends and neighbors could hardly be compared to systematic welfare by the U.S. government. The best lesson I learned was from my grandparents when my mother needed assistance. Instead of just handing my mom som cash, they asked for a bill that would help out if they paid it. My mom sent the bill to them and they wrote a check to the bill collector. Worked out great. But when my grandparents offered to give my mother a car that would replace the pile of junk we had, welfare said that if we owned that car, we would get kicked out of the system because we had assets that exceeded their regs. Trap! Been there. Ever been on welfare Bob. If not, you have no idea what you are talking about.

    CaptainDan, you cannot restrict the number of blogs by one individual. If you limit bigdan because you don't like his message, why then Bob would have been kicked off these blogs many years ago. bigdan has half the posts that Bob does. If you don't like what you are reading, stop reading.

  • Scoobey posted at 6:23 am on Fri, Jan 25, 2013.

    Scoobey Posts: 939

    Like you, Dan, I'm all for personal responsibility, and holding the person with the tool, rather than the tool itself, responsible when firearms crimes are committed. As an ethical, law-abiding gun owner, hunter, and sportsman, I also believe that the small minority of unethical, slob "hunters", poachers, and law-breakers give the rest of us a black eye, and those types and their actions also pose no small threat to our 2nd amendment rights.

    As a fellow law-abiding gun owner, aren't you ethically (and perhaps even legally) obligated to report your Oregon friends, who have apparently been violating game laws "on a regular basis"?

  • captaindan posted at 8:19 pm on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    captaindan Posts: 1059

    @big D, you have posted so many times, you can't see the forest for the trees.You say you use facts and truth to make your points .You site some one else's opinion and statements to back up your arguments. Giving one's opinion doesn't make it the truth. You are entitled to YOUR truth and YOUR facts. Because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them wrong. As for my last post. You only read what you want to hear. Where in my post did I say I wanted to make the rules. I ask the person who makes the rules to decided whether what you do on this blog is fair to the rest of the posters. You call it censorship, because as a flame thrower, you and your club think your big words make you right. So I'm intolerant for asking for fairness. You personify the reason why the the right has been sidelined by the america voter. I wanted see if other media blogs were like this one. I went the CDA press blog and the spokesmen blog and I found that folks bloging their seem to be able to share different opinions without the fitrol and repetitive posting by one voice.I like others read alot of post, but don't feel like everything from anybody has to be refuted. 55 posts on one subject? You lost most folks after the first half dozen.The rest is just a rehash of your first opinion. How many posts? Lots of blog monitors do not allow this to happen to their blogs. The bee apparently has no such rule. I hope to be the voice of reason in asking for some limit They find appropriate. In my opinion. As for the subject matter, I find it telling that of all the county sheriffs in Idaho. Wheeler is almost on an island by himself on this one.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 4:27 pm on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Michael. tell JK Rowling that welfare is a trap.

    It sounds like you're saying that welfare from friends and family is liberating but welfare from government is not. Would you care to explain how that works?

  • bigdan posted at 3:35 pm on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Sorry captainsdan, the study was from George Washington University.

  • bigdan posted at 3:33 pm on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Captaindan, so you want to be the arbiter of how many times a person can post? My posts do not keep you or anyone else from posting. If you feel you want to express your opinion, go for it. I unlike you, will not try to silence you.

    What I try to do is post a response to other posts on a per person basis. So if I make a statement and three other people respond to my statement I will typically have three posts. Additionally, I will read a post from say Bob and will want to respond to him before reading your post calling for censorship.

    I don't get you. You wan to get involved in the debate, but you don't want to debate with anyone who doesn't agree with you or might give you some in site on what people outside of your obvious echo chamber think.

    I just read a new study that showed how intolerant people on he left are of opinions expressed by those who have different opinions from theirs. You certainly prove the study to be true. George Mason University, look it up.

    One last thing, I am currently laid up with an injury and am trying to post from an iPad with a touch screen so reducing the number of posts by posting 100 lines is a real pain and I couldn't stand to read them myself.

    So let me know captainsdan, how many posts should anyone be allowed to have in your world?

  • MichaelN posted at 2:03 pm on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    MichaelN Posts: 502

    Bob, I'm not going to make a response to Square Peg, she does quite a nice job for herself, but I will to your last response to me. You would rather see "someone" there to help them up. Us too! It wasn't the government and the worthless welfare system, it was people. Family, friends and neighbors. If the government system had it their way, we would still be on welfare and I'd have many more brothers and sisters. Welfare is a trap. Been there done that (as a child), never as an adult have I drawn on government assistance. Not all the people who are down on their luck are takers, but look to the blue cities and you'll see plenty of takers.

  • Square Peg vs Round Hole posted at 1:46 pm on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    Square Peg vs Round Hole Posts: 37

    Mr. Wynhausen, I appreciate your response and opinions. Whether it be a chair, gun, knife, ice pick, car, hammer, fire, baseball bat, frying has potential to kill. It's the person that uses the item for harm that's the problem.
    On the other side of it, had my mother been more protected by the local authorities, perhaps she would not have taken things into her own hands. It was the era, and the fact that she wasn't "a good ole boy". I just am getting very scared at our rights being challenged. One by one they may be slowly taken away. I don't want that. This country was built on freedoms, rights. Why does the criminals and mentals have to ruin it for the rest of us.
    I'm married with kids. My husband works out of town. I have a pistol on me while at home at all times.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 1:21 pm on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    There is nothing wrong with the 2nd Amendment, per se, Square Peg. Even though guns don't load or shoot themselves, just their availability and access makes them dangerous around emotional people. And, we are all emotional at one time or another.

    In a fit of pique, Coach Bobby Knight threw a readily available chair out on the floor, drawing a great deal of criticism. Coach Woody Hayes physically attacked a player from another team, losing his job in the wake of the incident. Now I'm not saying anything worse would have happened had either coach had a gun on his hip, but it's certainly not outside the realm of possibility.

    Michael, ever the most personally responsible people run into situations that are beyond their control and fall flat on their face. I would prefer to see someone there to help them up, not kick them to the curb. Fortunately, our Democratic policy makers feel the same way.

    But turn Paul Ryan and his ilk loose and that will certainly change. After all, those people who are down and out are TAKERS not MAKERS.

  • Square Peg vs Round Hole posted at 11:41 am on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    Square Peg vs Round Hole Posts: 37

    When I was little, my mom shot my dad. They had a very hostile relationship, and perhaps she saw it as self defense after being hit one too many times. But, bottom line, the gun did not load itself and shoot, a person loaded the gun and shot. He did live, and I believe they both had mental issues. Two chemicals that should not have mixed.
    It's not the guns that are an issue, it's mental awareness, lack of empathy, and disrespect for human life.
    In high school, I saw rifles in the backs of trucks all the time. Boys were going hunting after school. The times they are a changin'. Sad. I support the 2nd amendment.

  • MichaelN posted at 11:23 am on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    MichaelN Posts: 502

    Bob, I took the blinders off many years ago when my parents freed themselves from government assistance and turned to personal responsibility. You can keep believing all you want, it doesn't make it true.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 10:03 am on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Clearly, Michael, you don't believe it. But that's not my problem, it's just your blind spot.

  • MichaelN posted at 9:50 am on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    MichaelN Posts: 502

    Bob, gotta hand it to you, you are a true liberal. Offensive in every respect. Do not answer anything that will not further your agenda or Obama's. Amazing.

    So, I guess I'll just have to take your word for it and believe that I'm better off today than I was 4 years ago. I can tell you this, I'm saving my money, not spending it. So the democrats plan does not work for me.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 8:48 am on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Michael, if you paid more income taxes in January then you must be doing pretty well. I'd say you had some benefits from your government. Some of us actually pay taxes without seeing a tangible personal benefit from government. My taxes paid for a pretty clean election, the outcome of which I liked. They paid for a peaceful transition from the 112th Congress to the 113th. They paid to keep the roads clear, the courts open and airplanes flying (except the 787).

    No, I'm not going to discuss the budget issue again. Since you don't understand the difference between running the federal government and a household, what's the use.

    And Michael, you may not realize it but you are better off today. As I said earlier, four years ago you were staring into the abyss. No so today. The outlook is positive for those with eyes to see.

  • Old Cop posted at 7:24 am on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    Right on, Scoobey. Back in the sixties I hunted feral *hogs in Mendocino and Humboldt counties in California. We used rifles, my 30-06 for example but hogs are tough to kill. It's not unusual for someone to wound one. They usually go to the heavy brush. That Calif Manzanita is nearly steel and moving in it is almost impossible. Carrying a rifle into it is impossible so I used my 357 revolver when I had to look for a wounded one. More than once I thought somebody was going to have to come looking for my dead body. Adrenalin floods your system. For me, more than climbing on a Brahma. Even a 357 wasn't enough, just thinking about going in with a 22 almost turns my stomach.

    *Bears are just hogs wearing fur oats

  • Scoobey posted at 6:30 am on Thu, Jan 24, 2013.

    Scoobey Posts: 939

    Dan, speaking of ignorance, if your friends in Oregon are hunting bears with .22 pistols, they are not only incredibly stupid, in my opinion, but they are also breaking the law. As to the .223 for deer hunting, in many states it is legal (including Idaho, although some states specify a minimum of .24 caliber centerfire cartridges for any big game hunting), but even among states that allow .22 caliber centerfire cartridges for big game hunting, most limit the number of rounds in the magazines of "hunting" rifles to 5 or 6 cartridges. Many prominent outdoor writers also recommend a minimum .24 caliber for deer (and some states specify that as the legal minimum), primarily because 1,000 ft. lbs. of energy is typically considered the ethical minimum for big game, including deer, and most .223 loadings fall under that by the time the bullet is 100 yards from the muzzle.

  • captaindan posted at 8:40 pm on Wed, Jan 23, 2013.

    captaindan Posts: 1059

    This is not a blog on the subject of wheeler's comments. It is clearly one man's attempt to publish his personal manifesto. With 180 postings, 55 of them, nearly one third are the rantings of just this one poster. Twice he needed to post 4 times in a row to to try make his point. Please David change the rules, so we can have a discussion without this kind of thread-jacking by one poster. I'm sorry I'm so emotional but I had to use some Facts that can be can't be disputed.

  • MichaelN posted at 5:22 pm on Wed, Jan 23, 2013.

    MichaelN Posts: 502

    alot2do, sorry to hear about the flu, I hear we are just beginning in North Idaho.

    You are correct that taxes went back to where they were. We can argue over semantics, but the fact is Bob W. told me that I was better off today than I was 4 years ago. My point is that my taxes went up, however you would like to explain it, I now pay more every month than I did before. Not only that, gas, food, insurance, everything has gone up in the last 4 years. I pay more for everything and get less for what my money pays for.

  • alot2do posted at 5:04 pm on Wed, Jan 23, 2013.

    alot2do Posts: 68

    MichaelIN, the reason you taxes went up in January is because congress allowed the payroll deduction to lapse. I have the flu, so my memory is foggy, but we were paying 5% for a couple of years due to a temporary cut. It was not renewed by congress, and that percentage went back up to the normal 6%.

  • bigdan posted at 10:54 am on Wed, Jan 23, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    MichealN, it goes to show just how uneducated some are.

  • bigdan posted at 10:52 am on Wed, Jan 23, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    This is also worth watching

  • MichaelN posted at 10:20 am on Wed, Jan 23, 2013.

    MichaelN Posts: 502

    @bigdan, I watched the video, thanks for posting it again. Although it was interesting and educational, what I found more disturbing than anything is the reader board at the bottom of the screen that said 69% of Americans believe we should raise the debt ceiling, but only after major spending cuts. This whole argument over guns has been very convenient for our POTUS and ridiculous. Lets get back to the real issues at hand. Huge unemployment, underemployment, stagnant economy, increased taxes.

    Bob, I paid more in taxes in January than I did in any month over the last 4 years for absolutely no change in my benefits personally from my government. A while back, you told me I was better off than I was 4 years ago. Can you explain that to me again. I pay more for less, but am better off? My wife and I just got done with our budget. Can you explain to me again, I mean, at all, why it doesn't matter that our government has not produced a budget in 4 years?

    Sorry for changing the subject here, but the gun thing is getting really old. Let's concentrate our efforts on something that will actually make a difference.

  • Scoobey posted at 5:40 am on Wed, Jan 23, 2013.

    Scoobey Posts: 939

    Ron, I appreciate your response - thank you. My apologies to you, too, if I crossed the line into disrespect. It's definitely a hot-button issue, and emotions run high.

  • Ron the ORACLE posted at 1:58 am on Wed, Jan 23, 2013.

    Ron the ORACLE Posts: 78

    To BW at 10:50 PM. Fair enough but you are already attacking me in this post; I do not believe that you can keep the deal. “O”

    PS: I have not the time to blog much anyway; too many school assignments. Mark my words: BW will break the deal….

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 10:50 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Ron, you may not understand this, but a personal attack is a personal attack, regardless of the subject matter. But, I understand that's all you have in your arsenal, so you have to use whatever tools you think will keep you in the game. Sort of like any port in a storm.

    I just want you to understand that we have little in common and not much common ground for sharing ideas. I think it would be a good idea to ignore one another. I doubt I will find that hard to do.

  • Ron the ORACLE posted at 10:24 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Ron the ORACLE Posts: 78

    Scoobey @ your 6:28 AM post.

    I have no real beef with you. I respect you. (Sorry if I came on too strong, but the gun issue will do that to you.) We just disagree.

    In the spring when I reopen my range, I would welcome you over. Perhaps when I have a bunch of retired policemen on the range qualifying, I will let you fire semi-auto rifles if you like, and become a tad more acquainted with them.

    Just always remember; responsible and safe gun handling is paramount!


  • Ron the ORACLE posted at 9:54 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Ron the ORACLE Posts: 78

    To Bob Wynhausen per his request:

    Bob, Right around the time you moved here some years ago, someone blogged virtually this identical thread of yours in your 1136, 1-21 & 0721, 1-22 posts. They used the ghost handle “Bob Grille.” At the time I thought it was you but could not be sure. I responded back then. This will be the last time as a courtesy to honor your request that I respond to your allegations. There will not ever be a third time.

    By the way, you realize that you have attempted to sully the names and reputations of several thousand former sworn state police officers, sworn state security officers, and non–sworn support personnel with your blog. All in a small minded effort to sully me, part of your politics of personal destruction. I will keep this as basic as possible and avoid law enforcement jargon wherever possible, for the reading ease of non-law enforcement people who may be looking in. (I doubt that anyone really cares.)

    I suspect that you may have been misled by someone exceedingly jealous of the California State Police Division (CSPD), the Governor’s executive police force as it was popularly known throughout its history. It is quite possible that individual applied to the CSPD but was turned down. Inter-agency jealousy can be a motivating factor for no good.

    Almost all of the members of the CSPD were lateral transfers from other police agencies, and most applicants were turned down. ONLY the best was our hiring practice.
    The history of the CSPD is almost unknown. I have never seen more misinformation, misconceptions, and untruths printed about any other agency.

    The CSPD was founded in 1887 as the “California Rangers.”

    CSPD police officers had around the clock unlimited police jurisdiction throughout the state of California for any and all offenses, traffic and non-traffic related. But it never numbered more than 500 + sworn officers. I was told that was because of politics, which I will not delve into here, other than to say that a large state police force with general statewide law enforcement powers was feared by some in California. A local or home control issue. So we were limited to the peak 500 + officers for our entire tenure, and substantially less in the decade before the merger.

    Later it was renamed the California State Police Division to go along with more modern terminology.

    Endless confusion originated because we also employed a substantial number of sworn security officers with limited police powers pursuant to 830.4 of the Penal Code, generally confined to state property. Whereas the full-fledged sate police officers, like myself, had 24/7 police powers anywhere in the state. Most often state security officers were in larger big city locations assigned to state buildings, while the state police officers were out in the marked and unmarked police cars. The state security officers were also armed and the uniforms virtually identical. The badges were different, however. In L.A. if you walked into a sate building you would likely see a state security officer there. And if you were pulled over by a state police cruiser and cited while driving in L.A., in example, you would know that you had met a state police officer.

    By the way, Los Angeles had its own force of city security officers, armed, also with limited peace officer powers pursuant to 830.4 of the Penal Code. But they wore a different color uniform so there was much less confusion between L.A. city police officers and security officers. Breaking the law in and around the city and state buildings could get you arrested in a hurry by the security officers of either jurisdiction who all had arrest powers.

    L.A. city police & security officers, CSPD police & security officers, were all law enforcement officers, and carefully selected.
    The CSPD was responsible for the security of the Governor, the Supreme Court and Court of Appeals justices, many public officials, and had an elaborate state of the art anti-terrorist center in Sacramento. The CSPD also was responsible for threats against lower court judges and all crimes on state property. In example, I had to investigate a burglary at CHP downtown L.A. Headquarters, and at their Barstow Field Office.

    I remember after I came out of the superb Rio Hondo Police Academy in Whittier, and had completed my FTO training, my Lt. handed me the keys to a brand new marked unit and said that “I was on my own.” I exited the state garage at 107 S. Broadway in downtown L.A., and I saw a driver ½ block away plow through the red light. I pulled him over on the city street and cited him. From thereafter for years on years the entire state was my bailiwick, and when assigned to motor patrol I jumped on any crime or traffic violation I saw, whether on a state highway, a county road, or a city street. These peculiarities meant nothing to a CSPD police officer.

    Our training was amongst the best in the state. The CHP brass was surprised to find out immediately after the merger that our police officers were better trained by far for all around general law enforcement than were their state traffic officers. And the CHP state traffic officers were the finest in the USA. But after that it didn’t matter; the CHP inherited our vast CSPD powers and we were now all full-ledged police officers. I am very proud to have been a sworn member of the CSPD, and later the CHP. I love both agencies and will not fault or diminish either. Nor should anyone-else who is an advocate of the Law Enforcement Officer Code of Ethics.

    After the merger we became CHP period. The CHP signed the pay check.

    You are ill informed about the transition training; it was mostly policies, procedures, how to fill out CSP time sheets, in example, some advanced traffic (after all, they are the best in the USA at traffic).

    Bottom line: The CSPD / CHP are now one, indivisible. One family. Yes there were problems at first as with any governmental agency merger process, but none of your business.

    The combined CSP / CHP is the largest and most capable state LEO agency in the USA.

    The Rio Hondo Police academy I went to way back in the dark ages was then a 16 week Marine style stress academy (it is much longer today; California is in the USA the leader in police training by far). Most of the staff were from LAPD and area police agencies.

    We were told at graduation that the U.S.-D.O.J. rated the three top police academies in the USA as LAPD, LASD, and Rio Hondo - in that order. Quite an honor! And all in the same geographic vicinity.
    And Bob, before the academy I took the standard CSPD / CHP / Fish & Game Entrance Examination and hiring process with an overall 94. I still have that in evidence somewhere in my old files. I wanted the CSPD job more than with any other agency.

    It was an honor this past summer to qualify one of my old Rio Hondo Police Academy DIs for his nationwide LEO CCW license, an LAPD Sergeant I have enormous respect for who was a giant in the LEO world in his day.

    I recall going into a state building and dragging a bad guy down the freight elevator and out into the parking lot because he had a bomb in his pocket. I took it from him by force, and the sheriff’s bomb squad later detonated it in the desert. It would have killed a lot of people. I was written up as a hero but who cares? I saved lives was all that matters.

    I arrested two bad guys one night in a felony traffic stop who has repeatedly raped a young girl and threw her out on the freeway, intending to kill her.

    And on and on and on over the years. I have all the commendations in a file I have not looked in for years. I wrote thousands of moving vehicle violations. But why am I am telling you any of this? I have nothing to prove to you or to anyone-else. I do not need to play your silly game.

    But I do want to tell you about a black lady I cited for speeding on the I-10 through L.A. She told the judge in Traffic Court, even after he said “guilty,” that I was the nicest police officer who had ever stopped her. I was immensely proud of that. I never abused any citizen with the power at my finger tips as a CSPD state police officer.

    FYI, my substantial firearms training was conducted by the FBI and the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Academy, as well as in service training. Some of the best there is to my knowledge without bringing in the military. I hope that meets with your approval.

    I run my range with safety in mind. Responsible firearms use. And no nut cases allowed.

    Why don’t you ask Sheriff Daryl Wheeler about the CSPD. He knew many of my old colleagues, to include ranking CSPD brass like the late Dennis Williams and Bob Cardwell, later high ranking CHP brass (Bob Cardwell was the smartest policemen of any rank that I have ever met bar none!)

    You do know that I was seriously injured handling a strong arm robbery – purse snatching case in the city, and in a high speed pursuit and crash chasing a kidnapping suspect of a little girl? That I have a demolished left knee, and a demolished left hip and low back? Which eventually forced my service & disability retirement because of these injuries? That I suffer much pain as a result on and off to this very day? That I will need another new artificial hip in but a few more years? All from protecting and serving. Yes, I have a lifetime tax free pension, but I’d much rather my body intact.

    Do you want the gory details of gangbangers shooting at me and my partners?

    How my two man unit stopped a speeding van with a suspect armed with a submachine gun who had shot a LBPD officer off of his motorcycle (the officer lived thankfully)?
    What is it you want? We could go on and on and on.

    Now Bob a blogger’s occupation is off limits. The Bunny-cons respect that, like with far left atheist Jason Benell for a relevant example. That is ONLY honorable. Differences in political or religious ideologies do not have to lead to attempts at the politics of personal destruction in one’s occupation. That can also hurt a person’s family. No Bunny-con would ever do anything to hurt Jason’s livelihood.

    Blogging is supposed to be an exchange of information for or against, and ONLY that.

    You once blogged that I was a “supporter of pedophiles” because I supported the Catholic Church with their stance on abortion! Pure insanity and sick-sick-sick on your part the entire blogging community echoed in unison!

    Have I ever attacked your employment as a CPA? I have no idea who you worked for, or if they were big or small, and I could care less. Their employees, their families and your occupation way back when are off limits. I have every reason to believe that you were a first class CPA as I am told you amassed quite a bit of money in your career. You are a very wealthy man. I ONLY ever question your social sciences skills (history, sociology, anthropology, political science, your present state of mind. etceteras), your non-occupational skills in which you are none too bright in my opinion. Just because you ONLY have a mediocre C+ college GPA overall does not mean that you did not have a high GPA in your accounting major. Everyone knows that. Just because you likely could not ever be on a college debate team with a mediocre C+ GPA overall does not mean that you were not an outstanding CPA.

    You once blogged that you were part of the masters program in accounting teaching at the state university in Oregon. That tells me you have a MBA or a Masters in Accounting, or maybe a DBA for all I know. I asked one of my PhD professors at one of the colleges I take classes at what does it take to teach in the masters level at any university; he told me usually a doctorate but a minimum of a masters degree. Okay so you were telling us you have a masters or a doctorate I gather; congratulations!

    So Bob, your attempts to marginalize my occupational background and experienced have failed miserably. That you even tried is your shame.

    I will not, however, marginalize your occupational background and experience. To the blogging community I say that you were clearly an outstanding CPA by all accounts (I have no reason to think otherwise). While I haven’t the foggiest notion who you worked for, I can only assume that they were first rate and the employees likewise first rate.

    Reiterating; If you ever again bring up my police background I will ignore you.

    But I thank you; I can use this as an essay for a future CJ class, although I will not use your name, but the professor and the class will know that I was dealing with a particularly base individual.

    Finally, you helped me find out who my real friends are. And for that I also thank you.

    Do you recall when Lawrence Fury attacked Old Cop, falsely accusing him of not being a police officer? I jumped to Old Cop’s defense and tore into Mr. Fury. I knew that what Mr. Fury was alleging was a lie, and I was astonished that he would tell it.

    And tonight I am still wondering where all of my friends are? Thank you Bob for hammering home a lesson my father tried to teach me when I was a youngster.

    I would appreciated your not blogging to me specifically ever again if at all possible.

    Sincerely, Ron the ORACLE

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 9:29 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    That sounds very familiar. Perki, I think I read the same Wikipedia article.

    Sheriff Wheeler's comments had nothing to do with drugs. However, if there are change in federal law regarding guns, local law enforcement will have to apply them if they don't conflict with state law. In order to set up a conflict consistent with the Wash and Colo drug laws, Idaho would have to enact a law making it illegal to require background checks at gun shows or to restrict the sale of high capacity magazines.

    Of course, what would likely happen if Idaho did that is a cutoff of federal grants.

  • bigdan posted at 5:46 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Here it is again Bob, so you don't have to go looking for it

  • bigdan posted at 5:34 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob, with regard to the Sheriff, exactly, so why all the hand wringing over Sheriff Wheeler's comments?

  • Perki posted at 5:28 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    I goofed and posted this as a response to Bob. Maybe I better put it up as a new comment.

    Again Bob, you really need to do your research. The .223 is used only because troops can carry more rounds of ammo than they can with higher powered rifles.

    The single most limiting factor in terms of firepower is the amount of ammo that a soldier can carry.[113][114][115][116] Assuming a maximum 10 kilogram ammo-load...

    A soldier armed with an AK-47 can carry 10 additional fully loaded 30 round steel magazines weighing a total of 9.2 kg (.92 kg per mag)[72] and allow for an additional 300 rounds of ammo. Newer plastic AK magazines are lighter, weighing .74 kg loaded,[74] allowing a soldier to carry 13 additional magazines weighing a total of 9.62 kg and allow for an additional 390 rounds of ammo. The AK-47 has a full-auto cyclical rate-of-fire of 600 rpm, a practical rate-of-fire in full-auto of 100 rpm, and a practical rate-of-fire in semi-auto of 40 rpm.[117]

    A soldier armed with an M16 can carry 22 additional fully loaded 30 round magazines weighing a total of 9.9 kg (.45 kg per mag)[70] and allow for an additional 660 rounds of ammo. The M16 has a full-auto cyclical rate-of-fire of 700–950 rpm,[13] a practical rate-of-fire in full-auto of 150 rpm, and a practical rate-of-fire in semi-auto of 45 rpm.[118] The current issue M16A4 and M4 carbine have a practical rate-of-fire of 90 rpm in 3-round-burst.[119]

    Both the AK-47 and the M16 will overheat fairly quickly under normal combat conditions and have a sustained rate of fire as low as 12 to 15 rounds per minute (about the same as a bolt-action rifle).[120][121][122]

    I'm done doing research for someone that can't comprehend facts. You would think someone with a Radio show would know how to do it for themselves.

  • bigdan posted at 5:16 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob the Hannity video is a shooting range demo showing the differences between a .223, 30.06, shotgun slug, a shotgun with a typical duck hunting load, a 9mm and a .45.

    Watch the video and we can discuss the level of power a .223 REALLY has.

    And based on the Presidents Inaugural speech, it looks like we need to step things up a bit.

    And since the concerns are these mass shooting, the subject isn't about long range but more so on "destructive power". Watch the flipping video.

  • Perki posted at 5:04 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    Again Bob, you really need to do your research. The .223 is used only because troops can carry more rounds of ammo than they can with higher powered rifles.

    The single most limiting factor in terms of firepower is the amount of ammo that a soldier can carry.[113][114][115][116] Assuming a maximum 10 kilogram ammo-load...

    A soldier armed with an AK-47 can carry 10 additional fully loaded 30 round steel magazines weighing a total of 9.2 kg (.92 kg per mag)[72] and allow for an additional 300 rounds of ammo. Newer plastic AK magazines are lighter, weighing .74 kg loaded,[74] allowing a soldier to carry 13 additional magazines weighing a total of 9.62 kg and allow for an additional 390 rounds of ammo. The AK-47 has a full-auto cyclical rate-of-fire of 600 rpm, a practical rate-of-fire in full-auto of 100 rpm, and a practical rate-of-fire in semi-auto of 40 rpm.[117]

    A soldier armed with an M16 can carry 22 additional fully loaded 30 round magazines weighing a total of 9.9 kg (.45 kg per mag)[70] and allow for an additional 660 rounds of ammo. The M16 has a full-auto cyclical rate-of-fire of 700–950 rpm,[13] a practical rate-of-fire in full-auto of 150 rpm, and a practical rate-of-fire in semi-auto of 45 rpm.[118] The current issue M16A4 and M4 carbine have a practical rate-of-fire of 90 rpm in 3-round-burst.[119]

    Both the AK-47 and the M16 will overheat fairly quickly under normal combat conditions and have a sustained rate of fire as low as 12 to 15 rounds per minute (about the same as a bolt-action rifle).[120][121][122]

    I'm done doing research for someone that can't comprehend facts. You would think someone with a Radio show would know how to do it for themselves.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 4:46 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Dan, don't sheriff's enforce local law (except Joe Arpaio)? So why would a Colorado or Washington sheriff enforce federal law over their own state law?

    We are all doing great jobs preventing dictatorships here in the US. Congratulations. We are also doing quite well keeping elephant stampedes out of our major cities and camels from running amok at airports.

    If Hannity says something sensible let me know and I'll listen. But if it's typical Hannity propoganda I haven't got the time to waste.

    Perki, a .223 has a lot more range than a shotgun. That's why they use them in combat.

  • Perki posted at 4:19 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    Dan, I was finally able to see that link you posted. But I would probably win a bet that Bob thinks that somehow a .22 cal bullet can tumble around in a body and make bigger holes than 12 gauge slugs or birdshot. He does seem to buy into things without doing research.

  • BCresident posted at 4:16 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    BCresident Posts: 78

    Ron I got this from a non-retired Connecticut State Police website:

    I think that trumps your ancient NBC news wrong report the day after the shooting.

  • bigdan posted at 3:24 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob, I stopped taking pain meds a few days after my surgery. The altered mental state and overall goofiness hand me processing info like a liberal, so I had to put a stop to that. And it was prescribed for a predetermined period and completely legal.

    BTW, you never answered my question (among all the others you haven't answered) about those Sheriffs in Washington State and Colorado who are not enforcing federal laws on pot, even though he states passed their own laws. Do you feel the same way about their decision as you do about our own Sheriff?

    And as far as a dictatorship, many of us are doing our part to keep this country from becoming one as well.

    Bob, with regard to your comments to Perki, you need to go back and watch the Hannity video I posted. It will help provide an answer to your comments

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 2:22 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Dan, I suspect any venue can be declared gun free by the appropriate government agency. Take airplanes, for example. I don't want to meet one in a courthouse.

    Dan, unintended consequences are, by definition, unanticipated.

    I'm a big believer in public safety. A lot of that takes place in public spaces.

    I hope the pain medication you're taking for you knee is constitutional. I suspect it is.

    Perki, I'm not gun expert, but I suspect the muzzle velocity and power of a bullet depends on how much gun powder is used to propel it. Also, there is .223 ammunition, and maybe ammunition for other rifles, that is weighted so that it tumbles when it hits soft material. When it does that, it makes a big hole.

    Dan, never having lived under a dictatorship, I'm not sure what they look like. But I do know that we haven't had one in this country in over 200 years.

  • bigdan posted at 1:42 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob apparently is for dictatorships at all levels of government. Government of the government, by the government and for the government.

  • Perki posted at 1:22 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    Wait a minute Bob. At first all I hear is how "powerfull" a .223 is and citizens should not be allowed to have it and then you state than hunters would want something more lethal. Please make up your mind which way you want it to be.
    Also unless the "permit" holder is in a location prohibited by law a Councilman does not have the power to confiscate a weapon that the Senior law enforcement officer in the County gave him permission to carry.
    I do realise that you think the President should be able to take weapons from the citizens but didn't realize that you extended that all the way down to City Coucilmen.

  • bigdan posted at 1:14 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    BTW, I haven't used a .223 in Idaho on these Whitetail but a well placed shot with a .223 would work.

  • bigdan posted at 1:12 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob, one can look at history and weigh information and data to reduce the potential of unintended consequences. I wish the Dems would have done that with respect to Obamacare. What increases the problem is making decisions bases on emotion.

    I didn't see in he Constitution or Bill of Rights, the right to do drugs, but I would be happy to entertain the discussion. A free society should be free however, step over the line and hurt another while on drugs an you go away forever or worse. And the same wit firearms.

    And at the end of the day how about if we just disarm liberals LOL

  • bigdan posted at 1:06 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob, if you paid attention to the video there was a period of time between the gentleman declaring he was legally carrying and the mayors monologue. You could see there was a break in the video, I'm sure to shorten it and keep it on subject.

    Does our city council meet in the courthouse?

  • bigdan posted at 1:02 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Perki, that was awesome!

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 12:53 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Dan, I only hunt deer with a camera, but I suspect most hunters want something more lethal than a Pentax or a .223.

    You may have a point. What if we legalize drugs and put a big hole in gang activity. Sounds like history would support that notion.

    Also, Dan, no one understands unintended consequences. That's why they're called unintended.

    Perki, I thought that video was interesting. I didn't hate it, but I found it instructive.

    We know that people cannot carry guns into court houses, I don't understand where the city attorney was coming from suggesting that the council could not bar guns from their meeting room. I suspect he is wrong. The other thing that was unclear is why the young man is carrying for the protection of others. He claimed professional status as a former member of the military, but he didn't claim status as a police officer. I suspect, that as a member of the military, he normally carried an assault weapon rather than a hand gun so I wonder how proficient he actually is with a pistol.

    Funny they wouldn't require the young man to disarm, but they sure did adjourn quickly.

  • Perki posted at 12:34 pm on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    Dan, you'll love this. Bob will hate it.

  • bigdan posted at 11:34 am on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob, when I lived in the Napa Valley I did load some 60 gr. .223 rounds that I successfully took three Blacktail deer in three consecutive seasons. One shot each. I also used it to assist land owners to reduce coyotes just as I do on our property today. I have a couple of friends from Oregon that use a .22 pistol to hunt bear with, not my cup of tea but they are successful on a regular bases.

    I think that we are far more exposed to these types of shooting due to the. 24 hour news cycle than we had been in the past. They have always happened, we just didn't always hear of them.

    Interestingly, the peak of the mass shootings was during the governments last attempt to outlaw something, alcohol. The peak was a result of gangs during prohibition that were fighting for market share to sell illegal booze. Prohibition ends, mass shooting drop off.

    Government never seems to understand the unintended consequences of its actions.

  • MichaelN posted at 11:31 am on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    MichaelN Posts: 502

    Dan, how do we fix liberalism? Sorry, had to do it. lol.

  • bigdan posted at 10:49 am on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Good post MichaelN, it's the point that needs to be driven home. The gun is a tool, we can't go back in time and uninvent them and it's a waste of time to deal with the tool. We need to deal with those who choose to use the tool.

    There are on record similar events where a deranged person used a bomb, knives, poison gas etc. Go to the source of the problem and fix that, the rest will take care of itself,

  • bigdan posted at 10:41 am on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    One more quote for Captaindan and his merry...what ever they are.

    "If you are for gun control, then you're not against guns, because the guns will be needed to disarm people. You'll need to go around, pass laws, and shoot people who resist, kick in doors, and throw people in jail, and so on; rip up families, just to take away guns. So it's not that you're anti-gun, because [...] you'll need the police's guns to take away other people's guns, so you're very pro-gun, you just believe that only the government (which is of course so reliable, honest, moral, virtuous, and forward-thinking) should be allowed to have guns. So there's no such thing as gun control, there's only centralizing gun ownership in the hands of a small political elite and their minions. Gun control is a misnomer." - Stefan Molyneux

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 10:40 am on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    OldMan, Ron never had the option of standing around looking pretty, so that was no sacrifice. I suspect you didn't either. But if I'm wrong, more power to you.

    Dan, all I was suggesting was that the number of mass shootings that occurred in the past 10 years, raises a question about the thesis of declining gun violence. I didn't say that was the case, only a question.

    I notice that John Lott, author of “More Guns, Less Crime” wrote the WSJ piece you cited. He makes an interesting statement in the article when he says of the Bushmaster “It is a hunting rifle.” and can be used to kill deer. You're a gun guy. Would you use a .223 caliber rifle to hunt deer?

    I wonder about his credibility.

  • MichaelN posted at 10:13 am on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    MichaelN Posts: 502

    LakeViewer post of 5:17 am. That cancer you speak of is society itself. One tool that is being used by society to act out with is guns. Small guns, big guns, pretty guns, ugly guns etc. Take away all these guns and you still have a screwed up society, that will now use the same guns from the underground. If they can't find those types of tools, they will find bombs, knives, rope, planes, cars, boats, etc. Human nature is what it is and unfortunately, there are some messed up individuals slipping through the cracks everyday. I'm not one of them and prefer to protect myself against them with the proper use of my guns.

  • bigdan posted at 10:12 am on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Interestingly Scoobey, those laws haven't stopped the importation of fully automatic weapons or kept criminals from sawing off their shotgun barrels. Not that I am advocating not having laws, but again just pointing out that those who obey the law are not the enemy. And the lefts constant attempts to make all gun owners the enemy is getting a bit tiresome.

  • bigdan posted at 10:09 am on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob, your opinion on an increase in gun violence does not agree with the FBI statistics that I asked you to review. From a recent article in the Wall Street Journal, "In 2003, the last full year before the law expired, the U.S. murder rate was 5.7 per 100,000 people, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Uniform Crime Report. By 2011, the murder rate fell to 4.7 per 100,000 people. One should also bear in mind that just 2.6% of all murders are committed using any type of rifle."

    Please take some time to read this so you won't continue to spread incorrect information (note Captaindan, I'm not bullying Bob).

    And Captaindan, shouldn't sanity be based on facts and not on wild speculation, emotion and misinformation? When did putting facts on display become bullying? I respect the fact that you have different opinions however you don't seem to respect other opinions, how tolerant is that from a self described leftie? So choose to learn by researching and finding facts or continue to form opinions by waiting for someone to write something that agrees with you, causing you to make an emotional response...hmm, which one sounds more SANE to you?

    A few quotes for you Captaindan:

    “Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't.”
    ― Mark Twain

    “In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
    ― George Orwell

    “Above all, don't lie to yourself. The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to a point that he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses all respect for himself and for others. And having no respect he ceases to love.”
    ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov

    “The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.”
    ― Gloria Steinem

    And my all time favorite with regard to facts is:

    “Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”
    ― Aldous Huxley, Complete Essays 2, 1926-29

  • Old Cop posted at 8:58 am on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    I considered myself a lucky man that I didn't spend my days writing citations or looking pretty although I invariably started off my shift looking as sharp as possible. I got my satisfactions by catching burglars, stopping bar fights or other things like beating up wife beaters that fought to keep from going to jail. That can be very satisfying. We routinely had to enforce codes almost unknown to the CHP.

  • Old Cop posted at 8:38 am on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    I had forgotten about the merger. I'd been living here for ten years when it happened and I could have cared less what California did. What I said still is descriptive of the functions involved. It was you that said to Ron "But I have it on good authority that you were a member of the California State Police, considered by many in law enforcement to be glorified security guards. So, I wonder if you really knew what you were talking about." Maybe It's like accountants. I understand some become FBI agents while the majority satisfy themselves by counting beans. I think Ron made it clear he was more interested in counting coup instead of standing around looking pretty. But I could be wrong!

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 7:21 am on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    OldMan, did you know that the CSP and the CHP merged in 1995? The CSP was a considerably smaller organization, less than 5% of the combined uniformed officers. The integration required special training to bring the CSP officers up the quality and skill level of the CHP.

    As an aggressive driver, I had several encounters with the CHP and found them to be fair and reasonable at their job. I don't see Ron fitting into that organization very well. But, I could be wrong.

    I look forward to hearing from Ron.

  • Old Cop posted at 6:47 am on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    I have been busy badmouthing the vocal near imbeciles lately so now Bobby gets chided. The California State Police have never sought publicity but I can assure you that what they do they do very well including but not limited to security functions.
    As to Ron I do believe he was a member of the California Highway Patrol (The CHP) A Chippie as we termed them. That's far different than a glorified security guard. The CHP sends new officers to the LA area for extensive training. The new ones and an extensive cadre of experienced offices primarily work the enormous Freeway system in the LA area. Different strokes for different folks is true Bobby. I wouldn't go into a burning building to save property for any amount of money. I wouldn't want to work a freeway because I hated driving 70 mph in heavy commuter traffic. I could do it but I didn't like it.
    So I was happily ensconced as a City Policeman with a lot more than the Traffic Codes to enforce. Ron could say he wasn't limited and that's true it's just that we commonly had opportunities that would not be usual for CHP Officers to have.

  • Scoobey posted at 6:28 am on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    Scoobey Posts: 939

    Ron, I guess you concede that you couldn't find any outrageous statements I've made about firearms, nor could you find any instances where I've displayed ignorance about firearms. Likewise, you can't find where I've said I didn't support the second amendment and lawful gun ownership, because it hasn't happened. So, instead of admitting that you "misspoke" about me, you deflect to slapping on a label and issuing a vague, unsubstantiated "you sound like" invective. I would expect more from someone so proud of his scholarship and research. I hope you didn't pull a muscle jumping to all those conclusions.

    As much fun as it might be to play the "you sound like" game with you (and to also deconstruct the irony of your crying about someone being "defamed"), suffice it to say that none of my personal firearms are safe queens, or what anyone would likely consider "fine" rifles, except that they meet my standards for function and accuracy. They are all working-class guns, some handed down from my working-class father, and some collected over time by my working-class self.

    Back to the topic at hand, I think the fear-mongering and paranoia over a perceived threat to our second amendment rights (especially in Idaho) is just so much hyperbole. Like him or not, there is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits the President, within certain parameters, from issuing executive actions, executive orders, or presidential memoranda, so for Sheriff Wheeler to say that he has strayed outside of his Constitutional authority in doing so is just plain wrong. As a law enforcement officer who has sworn to uphold the Constitution, he ought to know that. As for the other proposals, I don't think they stand a snowball's chance of being passed, and even if they were, it wouldn't be the death knell for the second amendment. There are already restrictions in place limiting the ownership of automatic weapons, and defining minimum shotgun barrel length, for example, that haven't slowed down the lawful purchase, collection, and use of firearms in this country, and even the NRA supports strengthening the existing background check system.

  • LakeViewer posted at 5:17 am on Tue, Jan 22, 2013.

    LakeViewer Posts: 928

    Here is my wrap up on this thread. We all know we have a cancer in the form of gun violence growing rampantly in our society. It's victims are all of us, but lately, particularly our children. They are the ones that will suffer the most years with the deaths and destruction of their social fabric.

    We, you and I, the Sheriff, and our legislators now have our hands on the handle of responsibility to act. We must all work toward a solution, whatever that may be. Our society, as it was crafted and as I was fortunate to experience, will not survive with this growing violence.

    The question is, will we act before it is to late?

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 11:36 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Ron, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

    But I have it on good authority that you were a member of the California State Police, considered by many in law enforcement to be glorified security guards. So, I wonder if you really know what you're talking about.

    But that must be wrong since what you describe sounds like real police work, all the way down to the dirt bags. I'd be interested in hearing more of your exploits, especially about the endless arrests. So what exactly was you role because it doesn't sound as if your were a member of the LAPD yet you were working in downtown LA. What was that all about?

  • Ron the ORACLE posted at 11:34 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Ron the ORACLE Posts: 78

    I just received this from a retired state trooper friend in Oregon….

    Sandy Hook investigation

    TODAY: Sandy Hook Investigation reveals rifle not used... And from NBC

    If so, will NYS rescind the AW ban?

    What was that reddawn? (Your 10:54 PM post was way out of line. You owe me an apology.)

    All the hoopla for absolutely nothing?


  • Ron the ORACLE posted at 11:23 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Ron the ORACLE Posts: 78

    I just received this from a retired state trooper friend in Oregon….

    Sandy Hook investigation

    TODAY: Sandy Hook Investigation reveals rifle not used... And from NBC

    If so, will NYS rescind the AW ban?

    What was that reddawn?

    All the hoopla for absolutely nothing?


  • Ron the ORACLE posted at 10:13 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Ron the ORACLE Posts: 78

    By the mid 80s downtown Los Angeles was no longer a stellar community in my opinion. I made endless enforcement stops there both traffic and non-traffic in nature, and arrested endless dirt bags there for a variety of offenses. It had by then transformed pretty much into a Third World community. But LAPD guys would know best. Ask Bill Litsinger. (I have heard from old police friends they are trying to clean-up the downtown area, but I know little else about it these days. But I will probably be there for a police association event in the near future. I’ll let you know.)

    Mr. Wynhausen, the “cop killer” bullet thing went right over your head. Your “armor piercing” comments are absurd. You know absolutely nothing about firearms and ammunition except that you want to ban them, no exceptions. That is your ONLY frame of reference. And apparently the ONLY frame of reference you savor like most extreme far left liberal Democrats. I have not the time or the inclination to school you. Ask Bill Litsinger if he has the patience. But above all, you should stay out of the guns & ammo fray until you are educated.

    You speak about conscience? Is that the joke of the week? Good Lord, you have no soul in my opinion.

    On second thought, I heard that downtown Los Angeles is beautiful to behold. Modern hippies are dancing in the streets and shedding their clothes, and chanting: “Pass the whacko tobacco around!” Why don’t you move there? I’ll take up a moving expenses collection for you.

    Ever think about congratulating your sheriff for looking after your constitutional rights?


  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 9:08 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Dan, I suspect those NY state legislators are constructing a straw man. Even the dumbest legislator knows, and they are plentiful, that you can't confiscate guns unless they are in the hands of people not eligible to own them.

    I have a question for you, OldMan and the Oracle. Incidents in which a gun us used to thwart a crime is called defensive gun use. How often does that happen in the US each year?

    If we're seeing a decrease in gun violence, it certainly doesn't show. In the past 10 years we've had nearly 30 mass shooting including Newtown, Aurora, Tucson, Fort Hood, Binghamton, Northern Illinois, Virginia Tech and Red Lake where more than 10 people were killed or wounded. How bad will it have to get if you stop slowing down?

    Actually, Michael, downtown LA is reasonably safe. It's South Central and East LA. In major cities, it's the gang communities that are trouble. Downtown LA is not gang ridden. I used to work there, but that was the late sixties and early seventies.

    So called cop killer bullets are made of material harder than lead, designed to penetrate hard surfaces like car doors. Unfortunately, that same material will penetrate police body armor like bullet proof vests. It's fine for police to have access to such ordinance, but not for the general public. Perki, you might ask the Oracle why hunters need armor piercing ammunition to kill animals. I'm not a hunter so the rationale escapes me.

    Don't worry yourself, SpdtMom, the Oracle has no feelings that you can hurt. If he did, it would be difficult for him to say so many of the things he says. Although, maybe I'm confusing emotions with conscience.

  • captaindan posted at 8:41 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    captaindan Posts: 1059

    To my friends from the left, Know that any attempt to bring sanity to a debate with the the bully posters here is futile. You must walk in lock step behind their fearless leader or incur the abuse they spew. In this gun debate blog they have shown their true colors. Respect is not in their vocabulary .Bye

  • Ron the ORACLE posted at 6:51 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Ron the ORACLE Posts: 78

    Dear SpdtMom,

    You really hurt my feelings! I may not be able to sleep tonight! (GRIN)

    How do you know I am a grumpy ol’man? What’s Wynhausen? A happy-happy ol’-ol’ man from maybe smoking that hippie Whacko Tobacco you think? I mean, like I don’t know, but I have my suspicions with all extreme far left ol’-ol’ men. (GRIN)

    You didn’t call Big Dan on ol’man. You must know us to know who is still young (Big Dan), slightly weathered but still very handsome and sharper than a tack and sought after by beautiful young women who want to experience Poland’s answer to Valentino (The ORACLE), but please don’t tell my lovely wife. And then there is the really-really toasted and over the hill, back around, up and over again, and back again ol’-ol’man Wynhausen, who beautiful young women run from in sheer fright! (GRIN)

    Would you please send folks to relinquish ownership of their AR-15 semi-auto freedom guns to the ORACLE; I promise you that I will safeguard them well! (That’s a really big GRIN SpdtMom!)

    I have to ask; are you a flower child hippie by any chance?

    I am not even going to ask you what you think about Bunny-con Old Cop; we won’t even go there….


  • Ron the ORACLE posted at 5:55 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Ron the ORACLE Posts: 78

    Responding to Mr. Wynhausen’s 2:18 pm post today I saw perhaps the greatest hypocrisy ever to flow across the Daily Bee opinion pages! Wynhausen talking about banning “cop killer bullets” is a cruel joke of monumental proportion! Many of you likely still recall his callous disregard and lack of concern for the family of hero U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, slain because of the Obama government’s incompetency and criminal actions in the Fast & Furious nightmare. Wynhausen could have cared less that LEO Brian Terry perished from a F & F gun unlawfully supplied to Mexican drug traffickers by the Obama stooges. Throughout Wynhausen’s tenure in the Daily Bee Blogs he has exhibited a hatred of all things police and law enforcement officer related. The ultimate hypocrite is all that I can say.

    Regarding the myth of “cop killer” bullets I recall how anti-gun fanatic Sen. “Ted” Kennedy (D-Massachusetts) and other anti-gun zealots introduced legislation in the 80s to outlaw these bullets, which really constituted somewhere between 80 and 90% of all hunting ammunition.

    I was part of a massive police backlash against this legislation which was being pushed by disingenuous extreme far left Democrats to more or less outlaw guns by back door legislation to prohibit virtually all center fire hunting and self-defense ammunition. Tests were conducted at the police academy with range masters like myself testing barely outdated ballistic vests against the bullets covered under the proposed legislation. I took a personally owned standard Marlin .30-30 caliber lever action deer rifle, a personally owned Winchester Model 70 .30-06 caliber bolt action hunting rifle, and my departmental issued Winchester Model 70 pre-64 .308 Winchester caliber rifle to the range. Range masters and police long range rifle marksmen from several other police agencies met me there with miscellaneous personally owned and departmental issue long guns. The best and the brightest of city, county and state law enforcement firearms experts assembled at the police academy to test the proposed legislation’s real intent. For brevity I shall relate how I and other peace officers fired countless standard store bought .30-30, .30-06, and 308, etceteras caliber hunting ammunition at the barely outdated ballistic vests provided for the testing. Whether Remington Core-Lockt, Federal soft point, Winchester power point, etceteras, hunting ammunition on the proposed ban list, it all penetrated through the ballistic vests with ease. Big Dan, take note: By adding virtually all store bought center fire hunting ammunition to Teflon coated bullets, Sen. Kennedy and extreme far left liberal Democrats in their Machiavellian scheme tried to outlaw between 80 and 90% of all standard store bought hunting ammunition under the guise of “cop killer” bullets, a cruel hoax. Fact: no standard issue police “bullet proof” vest ever made that I know of can withstand a Remington .30-06 180 grain Core-Lockt rifle round, in example. An incredibly popular hunting round (the mere shock alone would be devastating). Most of us range masters and state of the art police long range marksmen were also hunters and huge Second Amendment supporters. No one was fooling us with their silly backdoor schemes. We helped to put Sen. Kennedy’s macabre 80s attempt to rest (and whenever it resurfaced thereafter while we were still on the job). Moral of the story: don’t be deluded by extreme far left Democratic Party “cop killer” bullet fallacies. Their real and ONLY intention is to ban virtually all standard store bought hunting and self-defense ammunition. Back door gun control.

    Big Dan, Mike from Sagle, and Old Cop will have to keep our extreme far left Democrat and Obama worshipper Wynhausen in check for the most part. I have much too much in the way of my college studies to be able to participate very much in the blogs. Only once every so often will I be able to participate while the semester is in full-swing. But I know the Bunny-cons will keep the Santa Clara U C+ GPA “master debate” in check. (GRIN)

    Remember: “Shall not be infringed!” A real no-brainer, except for extreme far left liberal Democrats.

    Ron the ORACLE

  • Perki posted at 5:52 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    Since Bob referred to them would sombody please define the following for me?

    Assault Weapon................not look alike actual.

    Cop Killer Bullets..................I thought any bullet would kill a Cop, or rabbit, or maybe even a deer.

  • Old Cop posted at 4:51 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    SdptMom is making a heartfelt plea to reduce gun ownership hoping fewer guns will mean less violence. It's tragic that she worries the way she does on the basis of ignorance. I sympathize with her. If she were my wife or daughter I would comfort her and make every effort to assuage her groundless fears. I am a fond follower of Gov. Mike Huckabee and think Megyn Kelly is a love, but seldom ever watch Hannity. Obviously somebody has mislead you terribly about both guns and violence. If you value the truth and I think you do, you have been sadly cheated. I wish I had an opportunity to set the record straight with you, believe me Dan doesn't speak half truths. It's you repeating falsehoods albeit innocently.

  • MichaelN posted at 4:48 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    MichaelN Posts: 502

    @SdptMom, this is one man's opinion in response to your last post. I think Dan does a fine job of representing my viewpoints, and as long as he continues, I see no reason to repeat what he is saying. From time to time, I'll chime in and support him, but for the most part, he is tearing the left's argument into shreds and it is quite fun to follow.

    As for your children and their safety, you are safer here in Bonner County because of people like Dan and many other gun toting individuals on this blog. Try downtown L.A, I guantee you and your children will feel a lot less safe, and there will be an over bearing amount of illegal gun ownership consisting of every form of gun imaginable.

  • bigdan posted at 4:15 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    I think you would have to be able to prove intent. If not, you are holding some responsible for the actions of another. If you can prove the seller knew the buyer was mentally ill, I would say yes.

  • bigdan posted at 4:10 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Sdptmom, I am neither. What I am trying to do is provide some sense to an issue that seems to be driven by emotion as your post was.

    And for the record, I don't typically watch Hannity but thought that folks like yourself were interested in some truth when it came to the disinformation that has been spread about the "power" of a semi-auto weapon. If you chose to watch the video, which I'm guessing you didn't, but I could be wrong, you would have seen a normal everyday shotgun with a shot load used for hunting ducks is far more powerful than the .223.

    And no law abiding gun owner is packing assault weapons or semi-auto rifles in Safeway unless something has changed over the last few weeks. Now I can't speak for criminals and we know they can get real assault weapons so, I don't know what to tell you there.

    Now I can tell by the tenor of your post that you are not really interesting in facts, information or a solution as if you were, you would not be going after those who are actually putting up real information and instead would have posted something about personal responsibility, our failure with mental health laws and issues, etc.

    My goal is to provide the information that some apparently are not getting or are choosing not to get. I welcome you to the debate but please read through what I and others have posted so you can understand the context.

    I will not relinquish any of my property nor would I ask you to either. You have nothing to fear from me as unlike those who choose to use weapons to commit crimes, I am a law abiding citizen and keep my guns safely stored. My children were taught about guns at a young age as I knew I could control what happened at my home but couldn't control what happened at my children's friends home. I alway prefer education over sheltering. Just so you know, I chose to educate my children about guns because when I was young, I stood next to a friend when he pulled his dads loaded handgun out of a drawer and accidentally killed himself in front of me. His father was a poor gun owner and my friend and I didn't know what a gun was capable of at that age. I decided that would not happen to my kids and hopefully you have chosen to educate yours as well.

    And when it comes to your name calling and going after the older gentlemen on this blog, I would hope you would teach your children to be more respectful than what we have seen from you. But hey, it's a free country, do what you want.

    I await your response after you spend some time reading the posts on this sight.

  • BCresident posted at 3:56 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    BCresident Posts: 78

    The story you was from the morning after the shooting. The below link will get you to the Connecticut State Police Website:

    It states:

    Seized inside the school:

    #1. Bushmaster .223 caliber-- model XM15-E2S rifle with high capacity 30 round clips

    #2. Glock 10 mm handgun

    #3. Sig-Sauer P226 9mm handgun

    Seized from suspect’s car in parking lot:

    #4. Izhmash Canta-12 12 gauge Shotgun (seized from car in parking lot)

    This case remains under investigation.

    Lt. J. Paul Vance

  • BCresident posted at 3:56 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    BCresident Posts: 78

    I'm willing to acknowledge that AR came from "Armalite" and NOT 'Assault Rifle". i still content that it's an assault weapon designed for military use.

    Are you willing to admit you are wrong about the AR15 Bushmaster being used in the shooting? Seriously the story you are hanging your hat on was from the morning after the shooting. The below link will get you to the Connecticut State Police Website:

    It states:

    Seized inside the school:

    #1. Bushmaster .223 caliber-- model XM15-E2S rifle with high capacity 30 round clips

    #2. Glock 10 mm handgun

    #3. Sig-Sauer P226 9mm handgun

    Seized from suspect’s car in parking lot:

    #4. Izhmash Canta-12 12 gauge Shotgun (seized from car in parking lot)

    This case remains under investigation.

    Lt. J. Paul Vance

  • bigdan posted at 2:56 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob, why not research where most gun crimes are committed and report back to us. While you are at it, show us the gun laws in those areas and what party has been in power in the areas where by in large the highest percentage of gun crimes occur. I would start with the FBI website...

  • bigdan posted at 2:54 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob, nice try with yet another diversion. You still haven't answered my questions. So, you are blaming the gun for people CHOOSING to commit suicide? I must be doing something wrong as I've owned guns for more than three decades and I haven't committed suicide. Hmm, wonder what my guns are doing wrong here?

    Some State legislators in NY State revealed the Dems in that State already have a search, seize and/or confiscate piece of legislation ready to be put forth.

    And we can do something to reduce gun violence. Actually prosecute and send those who use guns in the commission of a crime to at least 10 years of prison. No more of this revolving door and light sentences for these folks who choose to abuse their rights along with others. Find the root cause to these 20+ year old males who are either mentally ill or are on one of many medications that cause them to flip out. Again, look at the source of the act not the tool.

    Lets have a National Data Base but you are going to have to talk to your buddies at the ACLU as they are the ones who keep blocking the NRA and others from collecting info on folks who are mentally ill and should be in the data base.

    High capacity magazines and semi-auto firearms are not the issue. They do not commit the crime, they are not influenced to either by mental illness, medication or because they choose to break laws to commit these killings, it is the responsibility of the individual.

    And to correct more of your misinformation, the NRA does not oppose a permanent director of the ATF, they opposed Obama and Rahm's choice from 2010 as he was a staunch anti gun guy and I'm sure you know the ATF enforces gun laws so it makes little sense to appoint an anti-gun person to that position.

    And the NRA has always been for legislation to keep guns out of those folks hands who shouldn't own them. The NRA is all about training and education and were the driving force that 30 years ago pushed the idea and implementation of a National Data Base.

    And increases in gun sales over the last decade have also seen a decrease in gun violence. We are down by 49% while gun ownership and sales have risen by the same amount over the same period.

  • Ron the ORACLE posted at 2:50 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Ron the ORACLE Posts: 78

    Reddawn, I would agree with you that in your special case you should probably not own or possess a gun. (GRIN)


  • SdptMom posted at 2:49 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    SdptMom Posts: 174

    Who appointed BigDan to be judge+jury here? He's been dominating this blog with his half-truths gathered from Hannity +FoxNews. I'd like to suggest Dan to take a moment + make an effort to listen to the voices of people who are truly frightened that assault weapons of any size are available in our community. Its terrible to worry about a shoot'out happening at our Safeway or Bonner Mall Cinema or a school. There's NO good reason for assualt weapons .. for all the same reasons we do NOT allow hand grenades!! Please relinquish ownership of your AR-15's .. its worth knowing your children + mine will feel much safer. Our children learn by example .. so make it a path for peace, not violence.

    Finally, we needn't give any care to the trash mumblings of grumpy ol'men (especially Ron-oracle's latest shameful name-calling) .. their lack of good judgement will eventually do themselves in. [sad]

  • BlackTalon posted at 2:34 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    BlackTalon Posts: 2

    Bobgriffith, you are free to be as uninformed and ignorant as you want and to demonstrate those traits to all our readers.

    Ego is a good thing, strong ego is better, over inflated ego is not. Personally, I have a huge ego but I tend to back that up. Sometimes I feel like a flea arguing with another flea about who owns the dog. These discussions are great, I am never disappointed by the huge double standard. The left seems to have the right to call others names but when the right does the same, the left calls the right primitive.

    I will say this to all those who choose freedom; when the other side claims race is an issue, we have won the point. That is their last attempt to try and make us ashamed of what we are.

    Race has nothing to do with our president and those that play the race card are the true racists.

    Even racists can only hate half of him. I wonder of the black panthers hate his white half?

    In closing, I have met Sheriff Wheeler and believe he is a man of honor and willing to speak on behalf of his county.

  • BlackTalon posted at 2:31 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    BlackTalon Posts: 2

    Bobgriffith, you are free to be as uninformed and ignorant as you want and to demonstrate those traits to all our readers.
    Ego is a good thing, strong ego is better, over inflated ego is not. Personally, I have a huge ego but I tend to back that up. Sometimes I feel like a flea arguing with another flea about who owns the dog. These discussions are great, I am never disappointed by the huge double standard. The left seems to have the right to call others names but when the right does the same, the left calls the right primitive.
    I will say this to all those who want freedom; when the other side starts claims race is an issue, you got them. that is their last attempt to try and make you ashamed of what we are.
    Race has nothing to do with our president and those that play the race card are the true racists.
    Even racists can only hate half of him. I wonder of the black panthers hate his white half?
    I have met Sheriff Wheeler and believe he is a man of honor and willing to speak on behalf of his county.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 2:18 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Dan, guns are also the tool of choice for most successful suicides. And no one in a real position of power is trying to confiscate guns. As a matter of fact, this country is so awash in guns that it is unlikely that we can do much to realistically reduce gun violence.

    But it would nice if we could give a little nod to the problem by doing some simple basic things like universal background checks, doing away with high capacity magazines and cop killer bullets and even assault weapons.

    The truth is that a majority of Americans now support those measures. And, if it saves a few lives, wouldn't it be worthwhile?

    One of the other things the majority wants is better enforcement of existing law. Why does the NRA oppose a permanent director of the ATF? Why does the NRA oppose systems that would enable the ATF to trace the source of guns used to commit crimes? Makes one wonder if the NRA is really interested in reducing gun violence. We know they're not interested in reducing gun sales.

    Corey, if you wanted to buy a gun to commit a crime, where would you buy it--a licensed gun dealer or a gun show?

  • Ron the ORACLE posted at 1:58 pm on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Ron the ORACLE Posts: 78

    Wow! This afternoon at 1:13 PM 74.8% support true patriot and Bonner County Sheriff Daryl Wheeler’s Constitutional stance for the people on so-called “gun control,” while 22.3% liberal Democrat, Commies, Marxists, anarchists, OWS types, and RINOS, etceteras, support King Barack Obama and Court Jester Joe Biden’s unconstitutional royal attack on the Second Amendment. Lake Viewer, Scoobey, the Furious One, Bob Wynhausen AKA: The Santa Clara U C+ or 2.8 GPA whizz kid, etceteras, please pack what the ORACLE opines to be your un-American totalitarian legacy and relocate to Los Angeles, NYC, Chicago, or Washington, D.C. to join other aspiring tyrants of your kind. Bye! Don’t let the door hit you in the rear end on the way out!

    How about a program to put armed retired police in the schools K-12 and college level, and to train and arm volunteering teachers, professors, and administrators? (Concealed carry).

    Ron the ORACLE

  • MichaelN posted at 11:13 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    MichaelN Posts: 502

    Thanks Dan for the invite, but I'm plenty armed and educated. Just went out practicing this weekend with my daughter. What a blast.

  • Corey Greve posted at 10:41 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Corey Greve Posts: 969

    If the gun was stolen, no. If the gun was given or sold to someone with mental health issues that are blatantly obvious, maybe.

  • Corey Greve posted at 10:39 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    Corey Greve Posts: 969

    I'm still waiting to see a true correlation between gun crime and the "gun show loophole".

  • bigdan posted at 10:19 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Reddawn, a usual the facts escape you. Nixon created he EPA and while Reagan was President he loosened firearms restrictions. Much later in life after alzsimer had its way with him and after an assassination attempt by a crazy person with a .22 revolver he made a statement in support of the Clinton Assualt Weapons ban. Of course there were more than 4 government studies that showed the 10 year long ban had absolutely no effect on gun crimes and in fact, after the law fell off the books in 2004, the FBI stats show a drop in gun crime.

    And let me know what guns you want to sell, I'm interested

  • bigdan posted at 10:11 am on Mon, Jan 21, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Harvey, good post. The issue seems to be some on the left, including those posting here, can't seem to bring themselves to the point of personal responsibility. Lanza is responsible, his mother is also largely responsible, the firearm was simply the tool of choice. Attacking the tool does nothing to prevent this from happening again.

    And those who believe we can just confiscate and destroy all weapons the mistakenly refer to as "assault style" weapons as a deterrent obviously don't live in the real world. The minute that happened, a black market would spring up to fill the void (see the war on drugs, prohibition, etc.). Additionally, we already have fully auto weapons being smuggled into our country and being used by the criminal elements in our society.

    As long as we keep the focus on he tool, I'm afraid the real solution will continue to be ignored.

  • Harvey Mushman posted at 11:30 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Harvey Mushman Posts: 13

    Wow! What an interesting volley of back and forth on views and opinions on the topic of gun control. I have been reading the opinions of you bloggers, and it became apparent that no one in this forum has really tried to make any attempt to get to the real root of this epidemic of the violence in our schools. So, at the risk of being verbally beat up and ridiculed, I’m going to jump in and see if I can shed some light on what is really the issue here.

    First, let me state so there’s no misunderstanding, that the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting was an incomprehensible tragedy, as with the others in the past, and in no way am I defending the shooters actions, nor am I here to use this tragedy to promote one opinion over another, or even my own for that matter.

    First, let’s look at what we know from what was reported in the news. I do realize that you can’t always believe what you read, or hear, on the national media stations, so I’ll use what was reported anyway. It has been reported that the perpetrator, Adam Lanza used firearms to commit his spree of carnage. It was also reported that he obtained these firearms from his mother, Nancy Lanza’s possession after he killed her. It was reported that she had taken Adam out to go shooting theses same firearms earlier in an attempt to “bond” with him, because he had been exhibiting signs of withdrawal and depression. This last bit raises the question, that if she knew he was experiencing mental instabilities, why would she introduce her son to her firearms and engage in a fun filled family day out at the range? Did she not think that this event could create a monster? Second, knowing what she did at the time, why weren’t her firearms secured away from her sons’ access? (Maybe they were, but there is no report that Adam had trouble gaining possession of them). My concerns here are that if Ms. Lanza knew her son was experiencing some challenges, mentally or otherwise, did she not seek professional help for her son?

    The discussion here seems to suggest that if it weren’t for the “assault type weapon”, obtained by Adam, this tragedy would have never happened. I don’t subscribe to this line of thinking. If any one of you does believe this, I know you’re smart enough to realize how naive and short sighted that statement really is, and that this issue is far more complicated than the access to assault type weapons. Regardless of the firearm(s) he used to commit this atrocity, you must remember, he had no opposition. He could have had two semi-automatic pistols with a handful of loaded magazines, and accomplish the same result. It also appears that a lot of you bloggers don’t possess a CCW, based on your comments on background checks. For the President to state that the current system of background checks is inadequate, he would be admitting that the Government played a part for enabling Adam to commit this act. Adam did not purchase these firearms. They were essentially stolen from his mother. The entity that performs the background check on all firearm purchases and CCW applicants is the NICS, and the FBI. The President is not going to point fingers at his own people. Is there room for improvement on this subject, sure. Background checks at the Gun Shows are definitely an area of concern. Buying over the internet is only an issue if it’s from a private party, but you can’t legally ship the firearm unless you have a FFL. The NICS and the FBI do a real good job determining who gets to purchase or a CCW or who is denied.

    It is plainly obvious that there are two sides of the fence of this issue, and that neither side is willing to look over that fence to the other side, if only out of curiosity. That’s unfortunate, because the issue really isn’t “guns”, its responsibility, and social factors that led Adam to carry out his intentions. My opinion is that the problem lies with where our society has gone with personal responsibility. It seems to have started with the hot McDonalds coffee in the lap incident. As painful as that probably was, and as hot McDonald’s coffee still is, a sense of self preservation, awareness, and responsibility seemed to be non existent at that moment, and that sentiment has flourished since. In this case, blaming some inanimate object is a lot “nicer” than blaming a person for their lack of good judgment. No body wants to hurt any one’s feelings. Put your adult pants on, and address the issue head on.

    This line of thinking seems to have started in our schools. First of all, there are “no losers” in school sports anymore. In the classroom, there are “no wrong answers”. At what point did we as a society accept this path of neutering our children? If one doesn’t feel the thrill of victory or the agony of defeat, how is one to learn about consequences of ones actions and effort? How else do we teach self esteem? And what about this bullying thing? When I was a child and being bullied, I defended myself, my self esteem, and my confidence. Did I get hurt? You bet, but I healed. I was taught by my parents to stand up for myself, and not let anyone push me around. By the same token, being a bully, well had its consequences. That was all a part of growing up, and I’m not out robbing the Qwik-E-Mart because I had a “troubled” childhood.

    It has been reported that Adam was prescribed an anti-depressant, and like many other massacre perps, Adam had “fallen off the wagon” when it came to his meds. This is the real issue. How do we prevent another Sandy Hook? Another Aurora Colorado Theater?, the Portland Mall shooting. Address the mental health issue and the lack of recognition that there is a connection between these two topics. Check out the links at the end of this blog, and think about it for yourself. I have to agree, that people kill people, and if they want to bad enough, they’ll find a way to carry out that desire. I have never ever seen a firearm being tried for murder in any court but the media court.
    As for Sheriff Wheeler, when he was sworn in as our County Sheriff, as with other law enforcement officers, military personnel, and of course all those blokes on Capitol Hill, they all take an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America. Rest assured, there is no way the Government will ever accomplish disarming America.

    All of you here sound sensible and reasonable, try to exhibit some sense of realism and address the real problem.

    Click here: What Exactly is The Correlation Between Prescription Drugs and School Violence

  • reddawn posted at 9:23 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1873

    What Republican President said Americans should not have semi automatic weapons of any kind , he as well created the EPA. I will give you a clue. He was a hollywood actor . And has become the one President the Republicans live by, or do they. Not really in my book, I voted for him. Stayed a Republican until Clinton came along. With all the abuse of the tea party to control Man kind and protect the rich, along wanting more war the dictators called the tea party has all but destroyed the Republican party unless they learn that the tea party is a dictatorship. Better break away soon or the Rs will soon be a very small political party. 55% over half of Americans like our President job, 58% as of today want semi automatic guns gone, games changed, better care for our childrens issues at home that cause mental disorders. Just yesterday at one gun show a guy dropped a loaded gun a it shot five people, thank God no one died, then another two shot at gun shows. Looking forward to selling my guns and using the money to paint my house. I can get some big money these days, oh this is just my thoughts. I think brown will look great on my house and then, I will be part of the middle income giving someone a job.[smile][smile][smile]

  • captaindan posted at 8:41 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    captaindan Posts: 1059

    Could you folks on the right agree there should be a law that charges the the irresponsible gun owner with the same crime that's committed with the gun he or she is supposed to keep safe?

  • LakeViewer posted at 7:10 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    LakeViewer Posts: 928

    Dan, that is exactly the problem. The laws do not work. More laws will do no good. All assault weapons need to be confiscated and destroyed. The violent movies and games need to be confiscated and destroyed. Society needs to step up to this horrendous mess and fix it. The problem has boiled way over the top. All the big cities are cesspools of violence, including the nations capital.

    We don't need to live in the midst of this. We can, and should, attack it like the cancer that it is.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 6:22 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Dan, the OldMan's allusion is very clear. He is telling anyone who will listen that he thinks our president is like Adolph Hitler. To me all that says is the OldMan is losing his grip.

    I understand where you righties are coming from. You lost two elections in a row to a guy that you think in unworthy and you can't stop crying about it. So you play the Hitler, Stalin and Mao cards and make yourselves look like complete and utter sore losers. And I can't blame you. If we had run a candidate as bad as Mitt Romney, there'd be no living with me.

  • bigdan posted at 5:30 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Tell me something Lakeviewer, why haven't you been reporting on the weekly shootings in Chicago, a city with extremely strict gun laws but has the highest rate of firearms related deaths in the country? Again, logic if far better than emotion when looking for answers.

  • bigdan posted at 5:28 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    And you failed to mention the 15 year old was the brother and son of the family members he murdered.

  • bigdan posted at 5:27 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Lakeviewer, we have laws that do not allow 15 year olds to posses weapons, why didn't that law work? I've looked at several reports of this story and none of them say who owned the firearm however I would guess the irresponsible parent did. If he would have used a handgun would you have been happier? What if he used an axe, knife or baseball bat, would you be calling for those to be banned.

    lakeviewer, you don't even have any facts other than it happened and an assault style rifle was involved. They also found a few other guns in the home yet you are ready to have an emotional knee jerk reaction and blame the tool, not the disturbed child or the parents who didn't keep their weapons locked up. Once again, you are proving our point, don't blame the person or the irresponsible parent should it be found that is the case, blame the inanimate object.

    Again, explain how I've had these kinds of weapons for over three decades and neither I or my children or the weapons all on their own have killed anyone. Please, take a deep breath and use some logic.

  • LakeViewer posted at 4:15 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    LakeViewer Posts: 928

    Topic subterfuge and confusion will not mask this problem. Another horrendous crime occurred today where five family members were killed, 3 of them children, by a 15 year old with an assault rifle. I suppose you would say that the 3 children who died should have had weapons to protect themselves. Your arguments are full of holes. How many more children will have to die? Assault weapons must be removed from our sick society.

  • bigdan posted at 3:39 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob, as much as I find you trying to turn the discussion (as usual) siting Godwin's rule, I fail to see why one can't look back at history and not similarities that might in fact protect us from making the same mistakes that we were supposed to learn from in history.

    If this President would stop hitting all the way points also hit by other infamous leaders like Hitler, Stalin, Mao and others, there would be no reason to note that our President appears to be on the same track.

    We now need to coin a new rule called Bob's rule: When backed into a corner, realizing you have lost ground in a debate, look for a way to change or deflect the debate and not answer questions that would reveal your failure to hold the point.

    There, Bob's rule...I like it.

  • bigdan posted at 3:33 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Lakeviewer, are you seeing a lot of gun violence in Bonner County against anti-gun folks that is not being investigated by the Sheriffs, or is this just more hand wringing about what ifs that will never occur? Sheriff Wheeler never said anything about not being of service to all residents of Bonner County, he is simply stating that he is upholding the Constitution and specifically the Second Amendment. He no more wants your right to be a victim taken away then my right to be a trained firearms owner.

    And if you have a legitimate claim and the evidence to back it up, why aren't you calling for at least an investigation?

  • LakeViewer posted at 3:24 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    LakeViewer Posts: 928

    I am curious what constitution Wheeler has sworn to protect? He has failed to support the 4th amendment by inserting needles in poor folk without a warrant. He has declared that practice constitutional, when in fact, it appears the supreme court is ready to affirm that it is not.

    If there is any question, Wheeler should come down on the side of the poor folk, since they cannot defend themselves. Only the rich have that option.

    Approximately 1/3 of the voters in the general election voted for President Obama in Bonner county. It seems they are all toast relative to law enforcement's attitude toward gun violence, and any sane process to reduce that violence. Shameful

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 2:35 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Well, there it is again. Godwin's rule, OldMan. Just couldn't restrain yourself, could you?

    Tell me guys, exactly what constitutional provision is the president violated? I guess you've lost the argument when you stoop to that.

    Sheriff Wheeler isn't alone.

    There are at least two other Idaho sheriffs who agree with Wheeler.

    I guess Obama isn't the only one who is challenging the Constitution.

  • bigdan posted at 2:09 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    OC is correct, our Sheriff has sworn to protect and defend the Constitution. Should our President choose to, by his own actions violate his sworn oath to protect and defend the Constitution, then in my humble opinion, he has taken that first step toward being a tyrant and the Sheriff is right not to follow the lead or instruction of such a tyrant.

  • Perki posted at 2:05 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    opns............"clips" is a term that has been used for years to carry ammo for 760 Remingtons for 80 or so years at least. Military terms and civilian terms are not always the same and either way we all know what is to.

  • bigdan posted at 2:05 pm on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob, go back and read the the thread. I put up good info to prove my point but as usual instead of responding to the original point you kept trying to deflect the conversation while moving it. The Second Amendment was written to allow for citizens to oppose a tyrannical government. It is not to declare war against our own government when they are following the Constitution but rather to be able to resist a government that no longer acts as our government when they attempt to take rights away as outlined in the Constitution...Period.

    And with regard to Gallup and other polls, I said the most recent polls not the poll right after Sandy Hook. Sensible people understand that the NRA is not responsible for Sandy Hook but rather a mentally disturbed young man.

    I understand someone is looking back at all the recent shooters to find they are all either liberals or had parents that were liberal/progressive folks. I wonder if it liberalism that needs to be banned.

    And those who use the word clip instead of magazine show they have no knowledge of what they are talking about and should do a bit of studying before participating in a discussion regarding firearms.

  • Old Cop posted at 11:31 am on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    Some 65 years ago the allies of WWII held the Nuremberg War Crime Trials. The defense offered by some Nazis that they were just being good little Nazis and following orders from above was not accepted.
    Some idiots think our sheriff should be a good little Nazi and do as he is told by an Anointed One. Many of us have sworn an oath to support the constitution. That includes Sheriff Wheeler as well as myself. We never swore to protect an Obamanation

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 11:15 am on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Dan, maybe you can show me that logical argument because I think I missed it. As I recall, you used an anachronism to define “war” and implied that individuals could not be charged with treason under Article III, Sec. 3 of the Constitution. On top of that, you stated that no rifle was used in the Newtown shooting. Looks to me that all you accomplished was no runs, no hits, three errors.

    As to the NRA popularity, there was a Gallup poll taken just after the shootings showing a 54% approval for the NRA. That, of course, was before they made any public statements about Newtown or ran that ad about the Obama children which drew the ire of Chris Christie. Since then, an NBC/WSJ poll, taken in mid January shows only a 41% approval rating. That’s a big fall in a short time.

    Sarge, I agree, there are no high capacity “clips” that can hold 30 or 100 rounds. But who really cares? Most people use the terms clip and magazine interchangeably. If semantics are all you have left to debate, you’ve already lost.

  • opns_sergeant posted at 10:20 am on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    opns_sergeant Posts: 300

    Clips load magazines, have never seen a "30 round clip" Recall I questioned Bob a while back on where he found a "High capacity clip?" Never answered.

  • bigdan posted at 9:10 am on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Recent polls have the NRA leading in trust and popularity over President Obama. Gallup has the Presidents approval rating falling almost 10 points in the last week. Even Clinton is coming out to tell Dems not to discount h opinions of pro-gun folks. He is still licking his wounds from the post 1994 gun ban hat swept Republicans into control of Congress.

    I hope the President and the Dems continue to push for gun control a there are a number of red state Dem senator up for reelection in 2014.

  • bigdan posted at 8:57 am on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Well then Bob, your ability to recall appears to be flawed. My response was to the point and supported in a logical manner. I understand there are some natural herbs that can be taken to improve brain performance in folks from your generation and I would be happy to have my grandparents recommend some for you LOL.

  • LakeViewer posted at 6:49 am on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    LakeViewer Posts: 928

    Ron welcome to the new reality that the majority of the country, along with me, stand in the middle of the left vs right debate and mostly are silent until time to vote.

    That is the reason President Obama is being inaugurated for a 2nd term today. By the way, fewer words are always more effective.

    Enough said.

  • Jason Smith posted at 6:29 am on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Jason Smith Posts: 68

    The 2nd amendment states " a well regulated militia " , are we a militia? I would be more concerned with the 10,000 pages to modify the 2nd amendment.
    This law makes as much sense as stating.." if we outlaw marijuana does it go away? "
    Arming underpaid teachers,unapprieciated, and not trained makes no sense. The teachers at Sandyhook shooting the attacker?
    Most law enforcement is military trained to seek and destroy, not to protect and serve.
    How many automatic weapons has the sheriff allowed in Bonner County?
    Apply now while he says he supports your rights to become a militia with the right to bear arms.
    How many crimes have been committed in Idaho w/ automatic weapons? NONE.
    Why do we need armor piercing rounds? Most of this gun crap was designed for military and not civilian use.

  • Ron the ORACLE posted at 1:52 am on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Ron the ORACLE Posts: 78

    Dear Blogging Community,

    Mr. Bobgriffith, I knew it was ONLY a matter of time until some unsavory extreme far left liberal played the race card. To even suggest a racial component to Sheriff Wheeler’s pledge to protect the Second Amendment is hideous!

    You owe Sheriff Daryl Wheeler and the entire sheriff’s office an apology for playing the race card. Sheriff’s all over the USA are doing exactly the same thing and it has nothing whatsoever to do with race. It is strictly about constitutional safeguards that not even the President and Vice President of the United States are above. ONLY in the perverse minds of far left radical liberals could the race card originate.

    The sheriff and I go back a long time. We have mutual friends in both California and Idaho law enforcement. We have over the years become good friends and I have supported his candidacy wholeheartedly. I am proud to call Sheriff Daryl Wheeler my friend and Fraternal Order of Police Associate. I know the Sheriff and his family, and they are a well meaning Christian family. Good people who have not a racist bone among them. You have unnecessarily defamed the Sheriff with an unfounded accusation you had absolutely no business making in the first place.

    For Bonner County citizens let me emphasize that Sheriff Daryl Wheeler has extensive California and Idaho police training and experience, for a blend that makes him ideal for Bonner County. He knows what to look out for to prevent the encroachment of the insidious crime that has sent legions of retired California and big city police from all over the USA to relocate to Bonner County. He is dedicated to keeping Bonner County a nice place to live and recreate. He believes in equal justice for all, and he would not ever tolerate injustice to anyone in our beautiful Bonner County, regardless of their race or religious persuasion if any. You can be thankful he is our sheriff.

    Bobgriffith and anyone-else playing the race card, you unquestionably owe Sheriff Wheeler an immediate apology. But are you man enough is another question.

    My personal thanks to Sheriff Wheeler for looking out for my Constitutional rights to include the Second Amendment, the foundation upon which all the others rest.

    Sincerely, Ron Adamik

  • Ron the ORACLE posted at 12:16 am on Sun, Jan 20, 2013.

    Ron the ORACLE Posts: 78

    Dear Blogging Community,

    Very long for a blog post. Edired and re-posted from another, earlier thread. Excerpted from a much more in depth and well-received research paper. If you want to learn read it carefully. Several educators have, and have remarked very favorably about it. Scoobey, read and learn. Check out the Afghanistan references in particular. If our Santa Clara U extreme far left celebrity wants to remain a C+ "scholar," he probably won't take the time. His loss. And he will stay a mere C+. Some are happy to be mediocre achievers.

    Far left liberal and most run of the mill liberal Democrats are perfectly willing to run right over the Second Amendment. They know perfectly well what it means, but they don’t care. When an apparently challenged so-called “conservative” Democratic Senator (and Second Amendment turncoat) makes a remark to the effect that he does not need a “30 round clip to hunt,” he exhibits his monumental ignorance of the very essence of the reasoning why the GREAT FOUNDERS gave us the Second Amendment for all time. I likewise do not need a 30 round clip to hunt. I most often hunt big game with a 5 round capacity firearm (4 in the internal magazine and one in the chamber if you so choose). But I also know that 30 round clips are invaluable to patriots who wish to exercise their constitutionally protected prerogative of maintaining peak firearms efficiency with semi-auto firearms in furtherance of the sacrosanct Second Amendment (and semi-auto high capacity firearms make unsurpassed self-defense weapons in many cases, ONLY surpassed by true full-auto military shoulder fired weaponry at close quarters in most circumstances). Semi-auto firearms are not true “assault weapons,” which are exclusively military firearms capable of full-auto fire mode as any active or retired police, military, or civilian firearms instructor knows, as well as most experienced shooting sports enthusiasts. I really do think that far left liberal Democrats understand perfectly well that the Second Amendment was crafted by the ingenious FOUNDERS as a safeguard to government tyranny and for self-defense. Hunting really does not come into the picture other than indirectly as most hunters like myself use firearms. I believe that gun control advocating liberal Democrats and RINOS know this, but are simply being disingenuous in their quest to ban all firearms; make no mistake, I said all firearms! Unquestionably, the quickest way to bring the people under a European-Socialist form of governance or outright Marxism is to deprive them of their Second Amendment birthright and the minimal tools they need to maintain it. Far left liberal Democrats are cognizant of this factor in their unending desire to deprive most of their fellow Americans of their Second Amendment gun rights.

    Reminding you that semi-auto firearms possessed by ordinary law abiding U.S. citizens are at a disadvantage against full-auto firearms in virtually all but longer range situations.

    For sadly misinformed liberals and RINOS who argue that a citizen army in revolt against a tyrannical federal government or invading powerful military machine in modern times could never prevail, I simply offer you Afghanistan. The Mujahedeen guerilla fighters in Afghanistan prevailed against an immense Soviet juggernaut. The Mujahedeen were armed with a conglomeration of bolt action, semi-auto, and full-auto weaponry (the full-auto small arms captured from the Soviets in guerilla operations and others supplied by the United States and other countries to the guerilla fighters). The Soviets eventually decided that it was too costly in the number of deaths of their servicemen and exited in abject defeat. And then there is today, with a powerful U.S. led NATO effort in Afghanistan and more than a decade of warfare against savage guerilla fighters armed with a conglomeration of bolt action, semi-auto, and full-auto small arms (Taliban, Al Qaeda, etceteras). And President Barack Obama’s announcement of a withdrawal date speaks volumes. Did someone say that guerilla warfare against a powerful regular military is unsustainable? Who was that challenged individual? I would like to meet such an individual, for then I could know that I have truly met a mentally challenged person in the gun control debate.

    While doing a research paper a year or so ago, I came across an article about small numbers of obviously well trained Afghani guerilla rifleman in open terrain inflicting major casualties upon NATO troops by shooting at them with WWII vintage bolt action .303 caliber Enfield rifles from beyond the practical range of the .223 / 5.56 X 45 caliber assault rifles generally carried by NATO troops. The Afghanistan guerilla fighters can do the exact same thing with WWII vintage Mauser VZ-24 & M98 8 mm bolt action rifles (7.92 X 57), with U.S. Springfield 1903 and 1903A3 .30-06 bolt action rifles, Russian Mosin-Nagent WWI & WWII vintage 7.62 X 54 mm bolt action rifles, and earlier U.S. supplied MI, MI-C and MI-D semi-auto .30-06 rifles. Hence the push for a new NATO assault weapon caliber with more effective longer range capabilities (fired in semi-auto mode of course for long range effectiveness), such as the proposed 6.8 mm. Which has gone nowhere to date from all reports (I am told by military veterans that in the interim a number of 1950s and early 1960s vintage M14 select fire .308 NATO caliber rifles have been issued to U.S. troops for longer range encounters in semi-auto mode). Be thankful that most encounters in Afghanistan occur at ranges more apropos to true military assault rifles whether in semi or full-auto fire mode. And bear in mind that many modern hunting rifles are derived from the military bolt action rifles referenced above. How long before our wannabe tyrants above decide they are derived from “military” weapons not suitable for civilian use? Not long I submit. Already an entire new category of bolt action scoped rifles are being employed by NATO troops for use against Afghani savages at longer ranges as previously referenced.

    One of my hunting companion’s young adult son purchased a like new Mosin-Nagent 7.62 X 54 military surplus bolt action rifle for hunting. An economical and ideal deer, elk, black bear, and moose rife with 203 grain soft point ammunition readily available. A quality scope addition and you have an effective long range rifle. The same hunting companion’s wife has a Springfield 1903A3 bolt action military rifle in .30-06 with a peep sight. It is a superb deer rifle with 150 and 180 grain soft point ammo, and an even better elk, black bear, and moose rifle with 220 grain soft point ammo. Put a quality scope on it and you have a superb long range rifle that some old retired Marines and Army grunts claim to be the finest military capable .30 caliber sniper rifle in the world out to 1,000 yards. Do you think that the wannabe tyrants above won’t want these outlawed along with semi-auto firearms? So tell me, how long before our wannabe tyrants decide these bolt action rifles are “military” weapons not suitable for civilian use? Patriots – do any of you really think that the wannabe tyrants I have named above will not want all of your bolt action sporting rifles banned, that is again – your hunting rifles? And what about your pump action, lever action, and single shot sporting rifles and carbines? Just a matter of time. Of course with the wannabe tyrants above your handguns are toast out of the get go. Think again good citizens; the wannabe tyrants above who have never seen a gun they did not want to ban, unquestionably want them all (I would not include Sen. Manchin in that unsavory bunch of totalitarian far left liberal Democrats just yet since the jury is still out on him).

    Gun registration is particularly insidious. Adolph Hitler used the gun registration lists in Germany to confiscate citizen owned firearms. Joseph Stalin and Chairman MAO confiscated citizen owned firearms. Dissenters were killed on the spot. Gun registration is clearly in violation of the Second Amendment in the USA (and ONLY good folks comply). And to those who holler in reply that a judge here and there says it is “constitutional” (self-serving judges who legislate their personal opinions from the bench AKA: “The Imperial Judiciary”), I give you Dred Scott. Need I say more? Do our far left liberal Democratic politicians and judges have a contest going on to see who can best emulate Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Chairman MAO’s grandiose gun control schemes?

    Would be or wannabe tyrants like Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-NY), who is talking confiscation of citizen owned firearms; Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-CA); Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY); Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL); Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY); Democratic President Barack Obama; Democratic VP and buffoon Joe Biden, etceteras (we could go on and on with Democrats and RINOS), will take all of our guns unless good folks – genuine patriots, write their elected representatives now, demanding no new gun control.

    FOUNDING FATHER George Mason tells us: “Who are the militia? They consist of the whole of the people, except a few public officers” (Adams, p.102).

    “To disarm the people [is] the best and most effective way to enslave them” (Adams, p. 101).

    FOUNDING FATHER Patrick Henry tells us: “The militia, sir, is our ultimate safety. We can have no security without it….The great object is, that every man be armed….Everyone who is able may have a gun” (Adams, p.98).

    FOUNDING FATHER George Washington tells us: “A free people ought to be armed” (Adams, p. 126).

    FOUNDING FATHER James Madison tells us: “The Constitution preserves the advantages of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation…[where] the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms” (LaPierre & Baker, p.31).

    (Reference: Adams, Less. “The Second Amendment Primer” / LaPierre, Wane and Baker, James J. “Gore Gun-Ban Government Exposed: Rocking the Framer’s Graves.”)

    SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED? The Webster’s New World Dictionary defines the word infringe as to “break, impair or violate” (Webster, p. 694).

    And we could go on and on with authoritative quotes from the GREAT FOUNDERS, and ONLY a mental defective does not understand the meaning of “shall not be infringed.”

    I suppose that Democrats Cuomo, Feinstein, Schumer, Durbin, McCarthy and oh yes, the brilliant Sen. Jeff Manchin (D-WV), who I opine appears to be a Second Amendment turncoat extraordinaire, place themselves above the wisdom of the GREAT FOUNDERS. Now isn’t that pathetic!

    Now if I am not mistaken, some if not most of the wannabe tyrants above are enablers of unrestricted abortion. According to the Guttmacher Institute, ‘there were 1.21 million abortions performed in the United States in 2008.” To the wholesale abortion enablers amongst the above group I found their alleged concerns about children with regards to gun control totally disingenuous, blatantly hypocritical as a matter of fact. It makes one wonder if one or more of them, in fact, welcomed the latest atrocity in CT as a convenient means to pursue gun control? Too cynical? I am very cynical I concede. Now of course they would never admit it, and would feign righteous indignation at the mere suggestion. Yeah right! Bottom line: I am entitled to my honestly held opinion in this regard, right or wrong. And I honestly do not know with absolute certainty about their sincerity in this regard. But I am suspicious of their true motives. (Upon reflection, however, I must conclude that none of the wannabe tyrants above could be that cruel and inhuman. But they sure exploited the deaths of 20 children at the hands of a deranged killer in a shameful manner. That’s a no brainer.)

    Americans need to thank NRA Executive VP Wayne LaPierre and the NRA generally – the Greatest Civil Rights organization in the USA, for their age old defense of the Second Amendment. If it were not for the NRA and its leaders over the years, such as Wayne LaPierre and the immortal Charlton Heston, no ordinary citizen other than working police and the military, not even retired policeman and long time firearms instructors, would be able to own, use, or carry a firearm for any reason. I believe that to be an undeniable fact. If I believed in reincarnation, I would know that former NRA President Charlton Heston was the spirit of the GREAT FOUNDING FATHERS, brought back to imbue modern Americans with the spirit and true meaning of the Second Amendment, the mechanism to keep us Forever Free (may this larger than life champion of the Second Amendment rest in peace). And the wannabe Democratic tyrants above think themselves more knowledgeable than the GREAT FOUNDERS? Give me a break!

    Contact your legislators and demand that the wannabe tyrants above be relegated to the Congressional basement and donate to political campaigns to vote them out of office at the ballot box when they come up for reelection. And be sure to join the NRA, and to donate all the dollars you can to the battle to preserve our most important freedom, the Second Amendment, upon which all the others rest.

    Let me close with excerpts from a story about a Great American military veteran, Joshua Boston, a very brave young American, as follows:
    Joshua Boston, Former Marine, Pens Response To Dianne Feinstein Gun Control Bill: “I Am Not Your Servant.”
    The Huffington Post by Cavan Sieczkowski: 01/04/2013
    “Former U.S. Marine Corporal Joshua Boston is vehemently against Dianne Feinstein's proposed gun control bill.
    Joshua Boston Letter, Marine Letter To Dianne Feinstein, Sen Dianne Feinstein, Politics News

    A United States Marine veteran has penned a response to California Sen. Dianne Feinstein's gun control proposal, saying the government has no right to take away his weapon: ‘I am not your servant. I am the person whom you serve.’

    Former U.S. Marines Cpl. Joshua Boston wrote a letter to Feinstein regarding her assault weapons ban, a proposal announced in the wake of the Newtown, Conn., shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School that left 20 children, aged 6 and 7, dead.

    The letter written by Boston, who was deployed to Afghanistan in 2004, was first posted on CNN's iReport on Dec. 27.

    I will not register my weapons should this bill be passed, as I do not believe it is the government's right to know what I own. Nor do I think it prudent to tell you what I own so that it may be taken from me by a group of people who enjoy armed protection yet decry me having the same a crime. You ma'am have overstepped a line that is not your domain. I am a Marine Corps Veteran of 8 years, and I will not have some woman who proclaims the evil of an inanimate object, yet carries one, tell me I may not have one.

    Boston goes on to say that he is not a ‘subject,’ ‘servant’ or ‘peasant’ and should not be punished because of the acts of an evil man. ‘I will not be disarmed to suit the fear that has been established by the media and your misinformation campaign against the American public,’ he writes.

    Boston's anti-gun control letter has since gone viral, but he is not alone in his pro-Second Amendment sentiment.

    ‘This gun grab, this attack on the Second Amendment, is just the latest in a long list of usurpations of our Constitution,’ Red State blogger Ulysses Arn writes. Alex Jones of Info Wars calls it ‘the effective END of the Second Amendment in America.’ ”

    Reiterating: Joshua Boston is a very brave and patriotic young man. I suppose the wannabe Democrats referenced above would send a police SWAT team, or a regular military unit, to kill patriotic Marine veteran Joshua Boston to take his semi-auto firearm. After all, I must remind you that NY Gov. Cuomo is talking about forced confiscation of citizen owned firearms my fellow Americans; yes it has come to that under the presidency of Barack Obama.

    What has happened to our once free country under far left liberal Democrats?


    PS: For full disclosure I am an Endowment-Life Member of the NRA. But I am speaking solely for myself.

  • Ron the ORACLE posted at 10:46 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Ron the ORACLE Posts: 78


    You too are a far left liberal Democrat based on your past posts. You live in a conservative sea. You do know that?

    You sound like one of the those elitist liberal gun owners who owns and savors a few fine hunting rifles and handguns, but does not want the masses to have guns. I guess you don’t trust the rest of us there Scoobey. ONLY for the elitist Democrats Scoobey?

    I recall the Jim Zumbo flap. He blew it big time. You should see the February cover of Outdoor Life. There is a riflemen depicted with a grey synthetic stocked bolt action hunting rifle with a scope and bipod. On his left side he is either a police or military sniper, and on the other or right side he is a sportsman hunter with a long range rifle. Long range hunting rifles and sniper rifles are for all practical purposes, one and the same. In my mind’s eye I could read into this quite accurately a conflict in the minds of liberals and moreover extreme far left liberals like Barack Obama and Joe Biden. They don’t want this vast army of sportsmen, millions of them, with long range bolt action hunting rifles, who could easily transition to snipers in a vast guerilla army pursuant to the intent of the Second Amendment given to us by the Great FOUNDERS. A great citizen-sportsmen barrier to tyranny. Obama, Biden, Chuck Schumer, Diane Feinstein, Dick Durban, etceteras are not just after semi-auto rifles; they want them all from the untrustworthy masses, to include handguns. Isn’t that right Scoobey? They want to destroy that great citizen-sportsmen army and deterrent to tyranny. Why is that Scoobey?

    What I find pathetic is that liberals falsely claim to be concerned about the death of twenty children at the hands of a deranged killer, but somehow lose no sleep as political enablers of over one million babies murdered every year in rampant abortions. Is that your story too Scoobey?

    Ron the ORACLE

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 10:39 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    As I recall Dan, you were unable to explain Article III, Sec 3, about committing treason by waging war on the United States. You came up with a bogus definition of war and were unable to refute my argument about individuals being guilty of treason. You should be used to being wrong by now, so losing this argument ought to be old hat.

    The McDonald decision is simply an extension of Heller concerning individual gun ownership. They are the Roe v Wade of gun decisions. I suspect a more liberal court may have a problem with those decisions.

  • Ron the ORACLE posted at 9:55 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Ron the ORACLE Posts: 78

    LakeViewer, I do not believe you when you say that you are an independent. Any political science professor reviewing your letters over the past few years would peg you as a leftwing liberal Democrat.

    Please LakeViewer, do not embarrass yourself by delving into rudimentary constitutional law; it doesn’t behoove you and merely makes you a laughingstock. Take five three credit classes in political science with at least all B grades (hopefully all with A grades) before you attempt to do so. Stop embarrassing yourself please. My eyes are still rolling wildly from reading your stuff!

    Old Cop, what is the proper antidote to stop your eyes from rolling convulsively after reading far left liberal posts? (GRIN)

    As a point of academic reference only, regarding your outright surrender stance, have you ever studied the Mujahedeen guerilla fighters successful resistance to a vast and powerful Soviet Army and Air Force several decades ago? I have written extensively on it these blogs. Where have you been? The Great FOUNDERS could certainly enlighten you.

    That you have been attacking Sheriff Daryl Wheeler non-stop for years now is undeniable. And yet Bonner County citizens have reelected him by a landslide. He is an incredibly popular sheriff. Why don’t you give it a rest? Maybe you ought to move to Los Angeles where you would fit right in?

    Ron the ORACLE

  • bigdan posted at 7:55 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    And Bob, not only have I provided founding fathers quotes to show intent and we have McDonald vs. Chicago to show the Supreme Court also agrees with the founders, you have yet to show anything that proves different.

    I await the answers from you to my previous questions.

  • bigdan posted at 7:53 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob, to correct the record, you lost the tyranical government debate as you couldn't respond to any of the info I posted just like you haven't responded to any of my questions or posts on this thread. Did you watch the video at the bottom of the citation I posted, there were two video's, one at the top and an updated report at the bottom of the page. I know your eyesight is going so I will take it easy on you but go back and try again.

    And based on what I saw trying to watch CNN and Piers Morgan, it's no wonder their ratings are in the basement as anyone can see they fail to report the news and have gotten hung up on creating news and using their reporting to misinform.

    As much as I can appreciate you desire to believe you have somehow won a debate, it may be time to once again burst your bubble.

    Go back and answer my questions Bobby...

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 7:51 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    I'm sure glad SF is a conservative. He fits right in, assuming he is a he.

    Perky, sorry for the misunderstanding. Good thing your name isn't Muffy.

  • SF posted at 5:23 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    SF Posts: 1


    I have to agree. I saw new guys wasting jungle @ 8 seconds a mag just to load more and do the same. Full auto is a waste of ammo.

    Get a bumpfire if one needs to find out but well place (or reasonably well placed) rounds downrange are the better option.

  • Perki posted at 4:57 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    quoate from Bob.Dan, I was referring to the issue of the Bushmaster. That's same video that Perki presented and my response is the same to you as it was to her................................

    There ya go again Bob, not knowing about what you speak. I am not a "her".

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 4:34 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Dan, I was referring to the issue of the Bushmaster. That's same video that Perki presented and my response is the same to you as it was to her. Although there's not date on it, it must have come out within a day or two of the shooting. Subsequent reporting suggests that the rifle was used in the school.

    As for the 2nd Amendment issue, you already lost the argument about possession of guns to deal with a tyrannical government.

    I hate to see you go 0-2. Actually, over time that's probably more like 1-15. Not a bad record for a conservative.

  • Ruby Ridge posted at 4:23 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Ruby Ridge Posts: 72

    When the federal government to our rights to have full automatic weapons, we were screwed. Semi-auto is no match when the federal troops take over. We need full auto! Call your Representative, e-mail them requesting for our full 2nd amendment rights.

  • LakeViewer posted at 4:01 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    LakeViewer Posts: 928


    The following quote is from the end of the article you referenced:

    "Editor’s note: The language about the weapon in the video was altered to reflect that it is speculation."

    I think I will believe the coroner and and state police, who were in charge of the investigation.

  • Bill Litsinger posted at 3:56 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Bill Litsinger Posts: 1394

    Just an observation or two that I've made in the past 2 weeks or so. I've noticed that more sheriffs have voiced concerns about the proposed new regulations by the WH than have small town police chiefs. Sheriffs don't have to answer to a city council or any type of police commissions that some larger cities have. They only answer to the voters.

    I've seen comments from some mid size to larger city police chiefs that have not condemed the new proposals but have brought to light some of the problems enforcing such legislation if passed.

    The smaller city chiefs don't seem to be as outspoken. It might be because there job depends on keeping the city council happy.

    When push comes to shove, it will be the cop-deputy on the street that enforces any law. The feds don't have the man power to enforce more laws.

    I think this is more posturing than anything. Obama has to do something for his followers. This will blow away just like the investigation into Fast N' Furious.

    Check the homicide particulars for most big citites. The murders are committed with handguns with less than 3 rounds fired.

  • bigdan posted at 3:45 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

  • bigdan posted at 3:40 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob, gave up on what? I responded and included quotes from our founders. I also asked a question that you and others on the left seem to keep dodging. Did you watch the video I put up as well?

  • LakeViewer posted at 2:42 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    LakeViewer Posts: 928

    I too, went directly to the Sheriff's web site and read his post. I was floored. I think this man is lacking in education. I gotta say, he is a nice person. But this is way over the top. I don't know what to make of it, or what he was trying to communicate. I think he needs the opportunity to clarify.l

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 2:40 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Perki, it looks like we're debating form over substance. Sheriff Wheeler appears to have used the terms interchangeably and I find no fault with that.

    I not worried about the form, it's only the results that matter to me.

    I find it interesting that, with little else to argue about, the right is making a big thing about nomenclature.

    Dan, I see you gave up.

  • Perki posted at 1:22 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    Bob, is this what you asked for?

  • bigdan posted at 1:10 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Scoobey, that was actually funny. I literally laughed out loud after reading the "911 call". Well done.

  • Perki posted at 1:08 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    Bob, I have heard you complain about people referring to your GPA but yet you just have to comment on anyone who may miss a period, comma, paragraph or any other error. You really are rather childish.

  • Scoobey posted at 1:01 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Scoobey Posts: 939

    Again, while I can appreciate the good sheriff's intent to allay the fears of some of his gun-owning constituents, his website post and statements reflect poorly on him and on our county. First, he misspells the President's name, then he wrongly accuses the President of straying outside of his Constitutional authority, and finally, he finishes his response with:

    "The threat to your 2nd Amendment Rights will most likely come to your mailbox through a questionnaire in the mail, not a knock on your door. These regulations will most likely be tied to Federal dollars sent to you as an individual. Please contact this office immediately if you are threatened. I can't do anything if I don't know what is happening. Above all, keep your cool! I will come when you call."

    Pardon me, but that just strikes me as a little over the top - can you imagine the following phone conversation?

    "911, what's your emergency?"

    "Please send the sheriff to my home right away! My 2nd amendment rights have been threatened! I just received a questionnaire in the mail!"

    "Stay on the line, sir, we're sending the sheriff immediately."

    "Hurry, please! They're also threatening to take away federal dollars I've been receiving as an individual!"

    "Keep your cool, sir. The sheriff is on his way."

  • bigdan posted at 12:51 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    And Larry, wake up, we have had for several years, armed guards in schools. Remove all the "gun free zones" so they stop attracting crazy people looking for high body counts with no resistance.

    And lets explore taking away 30 round magazines from law abiding citizens while allowing them to have 10 round only. So your saying killing up to 10 is ok but body counts higher are bad? and how long do you think it takes for a person to drop an empty mag and replace it with a full 10 round mag? So now we will force crazy people who want to kill large numbers of people to carry 10, 10 round mags but not a 30? Do you see how stupid that sounds?

    Again, stop the person who chooses to commit the crime and stop blaming the tool. And I would be much happier if those who are anti gun would just say they don't want people to own guns instead of standing on the graves of these poor kids to make a purely political move that will not keep these kinds of killings from happening. At the end of the day, that is exactly what our President is doing.

  • captaindan posted at 12:48 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    captaindan Posts: 1059

    So big D where do you draw the line?, full auto, mobile 50 cal's, ied's, Rocket propelled device, how bout your own personal drone, who knows where the threat will come from. Is there anything off limits to protect yourself? No need to respond we've heard to much already, give it a rest,

  • Perki posted at 12:45 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    Lawrence, Automatic weapons were taken from the people before you or I were born. And now you and others want to take "scary" looking semi-auto wepons away. Then someday you will want ALL semi-auto weapons, as many are already demanding. And after those are all taken someone will decide that since the Military uses pump shotguns that they are ASSAULT weapons and they should be outlawed. And on and on and on. Till someone finally decides Flintlocks were a weapon of war. Do you understand any of this?

  • bigdan posted at 12:44 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Larry, actually the first move was his attempt to put an anti gun head of the ATF back in 2010. This candidate was hand picked by Rohm because he was a staunch opponent to gun ownership and as you know the ATF is responsible for enforcement of gun laws. Fortunately the Senate did not approve this pick.

    So which guns do we ban Larry? I read on this and other Bee Blogs that we don't need this powerful AR platform weapon and the devastating .233 round. Of course, this shows that those who spread that kind of BS know nothing about firearms. As I've contested, a normal everyday hunting shotgun is far more dangerous than the weapon you hope to take away.

    Interestingly, last night on Hannity, there was a demonstration at a range that showed the impact of an AR platform, in .233, a 30-06 semi auto hunting rifle, a shotgun shooting both a slug and a typical duck hunting bird shot load as well as a 9mm and .45 hand gun.

    Take a few minutes and watch this video and tell me again how devastating you think the .223 round in a semi-auto platform really is.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 12:42 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Perki, you’ll have to explain the difference to both the Sheriff and me. Do you think he wasn’t referring to the executive orders, considering his first paragraph. Also, just as a matter of writing style, you should start a new paragraph when you change the subject.

    Dan, here we are, more than a month removed from the shooting, and you can’t provide a citation for your claim that no rifle was used inside the school. Yet you throw out the silly story about two other shooters. Before you change the subject, why not either admit you are providing misleading information or provide support. It’s a simple request.

    I don’t know what Sheriff Wheeler is guilty of, other than misstating some facts. As for law enforcement of marijuana laws, I suspect that members of law enforcement turn a blind eye to lots of marijuana use all over the country in order to keep the system free of nuisance prosecutions.

  • LawrenceFury posted at 12:26 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    LawrenceFury Posts: 800

    No one said that ALL firearms wold be taken away. In fact, this is the first action by Obama in this matter despite what many right wingers say. He even signed a bill that allowed concealed firearms to be brought into national parks. But when Babies are mowed down, it's time to do something. Yes, mental health is a big part of the equation, but not ALL of it. The leading NRA theory is to put armed guards in all schools. Okay, what about malls, such as Portland? We need armed guards there. What about armed guards in movie theaters? Work places. Practically everywhere because nut cases have struck just about everywhere. Yeah. It's going to look and feel allot like a Science Fiction piece I know about. A 21st Century Wild Wild West.

  • bigdan posted at 12:18 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob, a question for you, since marijuana is still illegal on the Federal level, is the decision of the local Sheriff's in states that have passed laws allowing the use of this Federally illegal substance guilty of the same position as Sheriff Wheeler?

  • bigdan posted at 12:15 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob, a question for you, since marijuana is still illegal on the Federal level, is the decision of the local Sheriff's in states that have passed laws allowing the use of this Federally illegal substance guilty of the same position as Sheriff Wheeler?

  • bigdan posted at 12:12 pm on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bob, why would the news report there were two other shooters and show footage of one of them being captured in the near by woods. This story has continued to evolve as the new services stop making up reports and get more info. Explain the video of the Lanza's moms car, parked at the scene and the police pulling out the weapon from the trunk?

    With regard to the Second Amendment, again if were JUST about militia's, and if you ignored all the signers and our Founders additional comments in their writing regarding the importance of citizen to be free to own and bear arms, then the Second Amendment would have read "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state shall not be infringed" however, that's not how it reads nor is how the Supreme Court interpreted it, not just in the two recent cases but in every case over our history.

    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

    And just so you actually learn something here Bob, I've included a few quotes from our founders:

    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

    "Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
    Patrick Henry
    American Patriot

    "The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them."
    Zachariah Johnson
    Elliot's Debates, vol. 3 "The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution."

    "… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms"
    Philadelphia Federal Gazette
    June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2
    Article on the Bill of Rights

    "And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"
    Samuel Adams
    quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"

    "Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
    George Washington
    First President of the United States

    "The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
    Thomas Paine

    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
    Richard Henry Lee
    American Statesman, 1788

    "The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."
    Patrick Henry
    American Patriot

  • bigdan posted at 11:56 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Lakeviewer, as much as I can appreciate your opinion, it is absent of any facts. Gun crimes are down by 49% over the last few decades while gun ownership has increased by a bit more of a percentage than that. Is it a coincidence? I think not. If you want a safe society, you want people to be able to protect themselves by having the ability to own guns and get some training. Certainly you are not so naive as to believe that gun laws will take guns out of the hands of criminals who don't obey laws do you? So, would you rather allow those who wish to be able to protect themselves via gun ownership and training or are you like those on the left who seem to think if they don't want it then no one else should have it?

    Although Sandy Hook was horrible, it is not the norm based on FBI crime stats. Additionally, those same stats show Defensive Gun use (DGU), guns used by citizens to protect citizens save hundreds of thousands of people from criminals every year. Knowing that guns are like tooth paste and you will never get it back in the tube, doesn't it make more sense to see life as it is and be prepared? or do you believe we would all be better off with our head in the sand.

  • LawrenceFury posted at 11:53 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    LawrenceFury Posts: 800

    No, I admit, I know very little about guns, and I DON'T WANT TO KNOW! I have no need of a weapon such as this and neither do you. If you think you're going to have to rise up against the govt. you seem to have very little faith in your country. And by some chance it comes to that and I'm still alive, it will basically be all over. I wouldn't want to live in a society like that.

    Oh, guess who are the primary supporters of the NRA? The gun industry to the tune of nearly $40M last year. Gee, what motive would their motive be in supporting what is essentially their PR arm? Hummm, I wonder?

  • bigdan posted at 11:46 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Bobgriffith, when the Second Amendment was written, muskets were military weapons yet our Founding Fathers felt it was appropriate for citizens to be properly armed. When the First Amendment was written, they were using screw presses and type setting yet it still applies to TV and modern print, so your correlation is an absolute fail.

    Scoobey, while I can appreciate Zumbo's position regarding perception, its another in a long line of mistakes with regard to the meaning behind the Second Amendment, and yes Bobgriffith, the Supreme Court recognized in two different cases the right of citizens to protect themselves and in McDonald v Chicago that said gun control attempts actually kept citizens from providing needed protection for themselves and their families.

    The question I can't seem to get anyone to answer, so I will repeat it, is this. How is disarming law abiding citizens or limiting their ability to protect themselves, make you safer? I've owned AR platform weapons and high capacity magazines for over three decades and have killed no one. I am not mentally ill (although there are days my wife might disagree) nor am I taking drugs that alter my state of mind. I practice regularly so as to keep my shooting skill up in the event I need to use them and safely store my firearms. So again, for those who believe we need to take away AR platform weapons and 30 round magazines from law abiding citizens as we know the criminals don't care about gun laws, how will this make you more safe?

  • Perki posted at 11:23 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    Hold on a minute Bob. I think you better go back and reread Sheriff Wheelers statement. He made it very clear that there were 23 "executive actions" not 23 "executive orders". I suggest you figure out the difference between the two before you make your comments. You may even change your opinion, though doubtful. As for you IDIOTS that are trying to turn this into a race issue I suggest you check the percentages of the black voters that voted for Obama compared to any other group. Then tell me who the actual racist in this country are.

  • Perki posted at 11:09 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    Wait a minute Bob, you better go back and read Sheriff Wheelers statement before you start your ramblings. He very clearly pointed out that they are "executive actions" not "executive orders" after you figure out the difference between the two of them then you may want to change your statement. But I doubt it. And as for you IDIOTS that are trying to play the "Race" card! You better go check on the percentages of the Black vote that went to the President and then consider who are the ones who are the actual "RACIST"

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 10:51 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 10110

    Dan, I hope you will give us citations for the reports that the Bushmaster was not used at Newtown. All the reliable journalism I can find reports exactly the opposite. Since you provided no cites, even in the wake of BC’s challenge, is it fair to assume you have none?

    I have no idea where people are getting the idea that President Obama does not support the 2nd Amendment. He has said exactly the opposite and has proposed nothing that would circumvent #2. I think hysteria has taken hold. Really, folks, the sky is not falling.

    Perki, your citation does suggest that the rifle was not used in the school, but it has no date on it, so we can’t determine if other reports about the use of the rifle came before or after. Given the importance of the Bushmaster issue, there should be lots of reports. Where are they?

    Here are reports from USA Today and Reuters indicating the Bushmaster was used.

    Dan, what do you think the point was of make “well-regulated militia” the subject of that sentence. Normally a writer will put the most important aspect of their writing up front. Clearly we couldn’t have a militia without armed militiamen. It seems to me that the primary point is obviously the militia. If they meant what you think they meant they might have written—Everyone must have a gun, just in case the country needs you to serve in the militia. Oh, and by the way, in the event we, as the government, get tyrannical, you’ll need that gun to come after us.

    I agree Scoobey, there is nothing in those 23 issues that should cause anyone to lose sleep. It sounds to me as if the NRA supporters would prefer to do nothing in the wake of Newtown. But, as public opinion swings more and more in favor of bold action, even the NRA is getting a little weak kneed.

    Drivy, where were you when Bush started tapping phone by executive order?

    With respect to Sheriff Wheeler, I take exception with his statement that executive orders do not constitute real law. Since the Executive Branch is constitutionally designated to have the responsibility for implementing and enforcing the law, it also has the delegated power, under most legislation, to make rules and regulations that have the power of law. If the executive over reaches, the courts settle the issue.

    The sheriff has a narrow perspective when he says, “…for the President to carry out his plans, he needs the approval of Congress.” That is true for the assault weapons ban, magazine size limits and universal background checks. But, for the 23 executive orders, that is not the case.

    The most important advice that Sheriff Wheeler provides in his statement is “Above all, keep your cool!” That’s good advice for almost any situation. But in one that has become as incendiary as gun control it is critically important.

  • captaindan posted at 9:44 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    captaindan Posts: 1059

    The wonderful thing about the suttle racism of elected law enforcment is that eventually they commit political suicide by anouncing it on the front page of the Paper.

  • Here's What I Say posted at 9:39 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Here's What I Say Posts: 1240

    All over the developed world, kids play the same video games that our children play and people watch the same western style movies we watch. And yet they are not prone to the violence we see in this country. We have been a violent nation since we first stepped foot on this land. Our government nearly wiped out an entire race of people and our brave hunters nearly wiped out herds of millions and millions of buffalo. Thankfully both survived the onslaught. The fact that we are a violent people has nothing to do with video games or movies but has more to do with the fact that we have this phony sense of individualism and that we aren't a collective civil society that cares for the welfare of others. I don't know how we can survive as a nation when we have the violent prone individuals that live in this country now.

  • dawgshepherd posted at 8:37 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    dawgshepherd Posts: 711

    Bobgriffith , go ahead and get yourself a BIG 'BOWIE' knife...race card , 6 year old's opinion..Really ?

    Where do you people come from

    I am proud of our Sheriff and our Constitution as it was written not how the skinny wimp and his cult followers chose to interpret it.

  • Keepingmyoath posted at 8:29 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Keepingmyoath Posts: 7

    Sheriff Wheeler a moron? Bobgriffith is clearly the true egotist. The sadest thing about his attitude is that he has a son and has the ability to procreate as he poisons his child with his liberal diatride. I bet he and his son even play the same desensitizing, violent video games the cowardly mass murderers did as they built up their courage to ply their terror upon a "gun free zone".

    Apparently states and county rights mean nothing to him. Sounds as if he may be much happier in one of the "peoples republic of enlightenment" states. Living in a conservative state means not wanting the government to be there for all your welfare recipient needs. I like being the one responsible for my and my
    family needs. I dont want, nor do i need the federal government for anything and no, i'm not wealthy. I dont need to be. if you want to live in "liberal land", please move there unless your already there, and if thats the case, please mind your own damn business.

  • Bobgriffith posted at 7:19 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Bobgriffith Posts: 1

    Well. Its Clearly Obvious that Bonner County Sheriff Daryl Wheeler's own Personal Ego is well in the way of "What he thinks is a U.S. Constitutional Right is." Equally, his ability to Understand and Define His obligations to the Second Amendment are totally incorrect. Clearly, he never fully read the Second Amendment nor the official legal reviews of its cause and effect. Even my 6-year son clearly pointed this fact out that Sheriff Daryl Wheeler was askew in his egotistical statement to the press. Obviously it is here a fearful fact of this person who holds office of the counties high Sheriff is more egotistical than able to understand the correct terms of the Second Amendment. I'll bet Sheriff Daryl Wheeler also sincerely thinks the issue to firearms is also tied to the 14th amendment which is clearly is not. More than anything, he clearly demonstrates his disrespect to the highest office of the country and maybe its because of the Presidents race? another fact for Sheriff Daryl Wheeler not to hold office any longer. .All in all a Career-Move for Sheriff Daryl Wheeler based on what he has said. Oh yes, when the Second Amendment was written its authors had no idea of the advanced weapons which were to be later developed. Back then, no real center-fire cartridges with hollow point copper clad bullets being fired through a rifled barrel at high velocities was even dreamed of. It was black powder, smooth bore guns where it took up to a several minutes to reload and fire. Today its, easily possible to pull the trigger of a gun with large magazines 100-times in less than a minute. Further, the social society of folk-ways today is such that the form of laws today creates a need to control who has access to and owns firearms. With more than One-in-Five persons being mentally unstable in this country today to dispute the need to control firearms is something where Sheriff Daryl Wheeler comes off as a real moron and nothing else.

  • Scoobey posted at 7:05 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Scoobey Posts: 939


    Please point out where I have made "absurd statements about firearms." I am quite knowledgeable about firearms, having grown up around them, and I currently own and regularly use several firearms of numerous action types: single and double-action revolvers, semi-automatic handguns and rifles, and pump-action, bolt-action, lever-action, muzzleloading, and single-shot breech-loading rifles. I also reload much of my own centerfire rifle and pistol ammunition. I have thus far chosen not to bring up that knowledge in these blogs, which I guess gives you license to jump to conclusions and make assumptions about me.

    Furthermore, I also voted for and generally support Sheriff Wheeler, and I understand, as an elected official, his need to address the concerns of his constituents, but it is my opinion, in this instance, that he "misspoke," because, like him or not, the President does have the Constitutional authority to issue Executive Actions, and most of these 23 address issues that those on all sides of the gun debate pretty much agree on - strengthening the background check system, encouraging safe and responsible gun ownership, improving our mental health system, and strengthening school security and emergency response plans.

    Lastly, I fully understand the difference between semi-automatic and fully-automatic weapons (and the selective-fire capability of true military rifles), and I also understand that the term "assault weapon" has become semantic shorthand for what is really an "ASSAULT-STYLE weapon", and that the semi-automatic action type of the AR-15 and its clones is little different from that of a semi-automatic hunting rifle. I also understand gun manufacturers' legal rights to produce their products and law-abiding citizens' legal rights to purchase said products.

    That being said, I guess I'm a "traditionalist", too, because I tend to agree with Jim Zumbo, a prominent outdoor writer who got fired from both his TV show and Outdoor Life magazine several years ago for daring to suggest that hunters and sportsmen were harming their public perception by hunting with AR-style rifles that laymen, non-sportsmen, and anti-hunters (rightly or wrongly) associate with terrorism and (rightly or wrongly) call "assault rifles." Note that I am not advocating banning or outlawing them, just saying that as hunters, sportsmen, and responsible gun owners, we need to understand public perceptions about us and the image we project.

  • LakeViewer posted at 6:19 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    LakeViewer Posts: 928

    Ron, your attitude is similar to the Taliban in Afghanistan, the only other place in the world where an organized group has turned their backs on violence against children in schools. Radical agendas know no limits on violence.

    The constitution has been interpreted as to it's meaning since it's inception. That is why we have the supreme court. That court has the final say on what the law of the land is. Sheriff Wheeler has pledged to support and enforce the law of the land. He is very naive to have pledged to the radical gun lobby.

    The President has certain executive powers that are also enabled by the law of the land. These powers have been used by every President. He is the only authority in our democracy that can take immediate action in times of national emergencies which, in my opinion, the Sandy Hook event should be classified. It is not the duty of individual Sheriff's to question Presidential authority. That is the duty of the court system. It is the duty of the Sheriff to keep the peace in this county, and to enforce the law to the best of his ability, not to exclaim his support of some local agenda.

    You are also incorrect by labeling me a democrat. I am an independent American highly concerned about the radical turn in our society. We need to all work together to come up with solutions and adjust to the times. Radicalism is not the answer, and could lead our country into anarchy.

    75% of our citizens in this country seem to agree with me. They feel the Presidents actions in this matter are correct and necessary. We need to proceed down a path that will lead to security in our society for our kids and ourselves without being subjected to constant violence and heartbreak. If we need to get rid of high powered weapons, so be it. We can mold the constitution to the needs of the country.

    By the way, what will these high power guns achieve if our government does decide to take over? The state will use bazookas, tanks, missiles, fighter jets, gas and nuclear weapons against us. We will all be toast in a matter of hours. Better to change the system from within, don't you think?

  • drivy19 posted at 3:20 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    drivy19 Posts: 115

    The president's "wishes", contrary to what you seem to think, do NOT constitute "law"! In the case of the current occupant of the W.H., this "thing" has it in mind to "rule" as opposed to "govern" in concert with Congress.

    Just to remind you:

    Article VI, U.S. Constitution:

    "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

    The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

    "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution;"

    This INCLUDES obama...

    Vietnam Combat Veteran 7/66-11/71

  • drivy19 posted at 3:11 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    drivy19 Posts: 115

    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

    -Ben Franklin

  • Ron the ORACLE posted at 12:42 am on Sat, Jan 19, 2013.

    Ron the ORACLE Posts: 78

    When I read the nonsensical rubbish posted by Mr. Fury, Highwayman, Laurie, SugarShane, Scoobey, and LakeViewer, in example, I am sadly reminded that these people vote. They make absurd statements about firearms and they are obviously ignorant of all things firearms related and the Second Amendment, much as is the case with our Santa Clara U celebrity who has not yet posted to this thread, but who will eventually get around to it no doubt. And mark my words, with much the same lack of knowledge about all things firearms related.

    For the umpteenth time, to educate the gun ignorant about semi-auto vs. true full-auto military assault rifles, I am going to take a new tact. I shall reference a portion of a letter by distinguished NRA President David Keene regarding the AR-15 vs. the M-16 as follows:

    “The president says these are assault weapons designed to wreak havoc in battle. The AR-15 is not an assault weapon designed to wreak havoc in battle. It’s a semi-automatic commercial rifle. If we equipped our Army with it, we would lose to every third-world, tin-pot dictator because military assault weapons are full automatic machine guns. So what happens is you create a caricature and then you sell it and pretty soon even people who think they’re being fair accept it and you’re dealing in mythology rather than reality. ”

    Keene to Newsmax: Obama Presidency 'At Risk' If He Acts Alone on Gun Ban
    Wednesday January 16, 2013.

    Now how many ways can I say this: True military assault firearms are capable of full-auto fire. Such as the M-16. Why is that so hard to understand?

    Like me or hate me, you are now in my area of expertise. Listen and learn.

    One more time for the edification of the know nothing malcontents, semi-auto rifles such as the AR-15 (regardless of the manufacturer), are not military assault rifles. Can we all understand that? Laurie, got that?

    Big Dan, MichaelN, L. Wallace, and bonnerben, thank you for defending our Sheriff Daryl Wheeler with your well reasoned and accurate arguments in defense of the Second Amendment and liberty for all. There is no need of my repeating them.

    If you recall, Mr. Fury and LakeViewer attacked Daryl repeatedly in the primary and election process. There is a distinct residue of “sour grapes” in the air. Thank goodness that out of well over 40,000 residents in our beautiful and freedom oriented Bonner county, ONLY a few sour grapes ultra-far left Democrats who refuse to research the substance of the topic at hand, are the ONLY ones complaining.

    Be thankful all that we have Daryl Wheeler for our county sheriff. I can inform you that he is superbly qualified to be the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in our pristine county. He is a decent, law abiding, and moral man. A true patriot, he understands that it is his duty to protect his charges from all would be usurpers of the U.S. Constitution and the entire Bill of Rights therein. Genuine patriots all, lend him your support.

    And be forever thankful that we live in Idaho, Land of the Free!

    Sincerely, Ron the ORACLE

  • SugarShane posted at 10:08 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    SugarShane Posts: 200

    Empty hollow words to placate the masses. It's not the job of the sheriff to interpret the constitution, just enforce the laws. The presidents wishes are not "arbitrary" and if law is enacted and you resist, will meet the force of the US military, who has taken a vow to defend the country against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

  • alljack posted at 9:52 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    alljack Posts: 4

    Just because President Obama taught courses in constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School doesn't mean he knows more about it than most hick sheriffs.

  • bigdan posted at 9:00 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Lloyd, I believe that was Benjamin Franklin who said that.

    Lakeviewer, there is a rather exhausted study that was published I believe in 2002 that showed the detrimental affects of violent video games and violence in movies and how a direct line can be drawn in minors violent actions. My memory of the report made it clear that children under the age of 18 should not be exposed to these things. My oldest son, who is now 28 plays what is known as "first person shooter" games and they are about as realistic as can be. The military uses these types of things as simulator training to help desensitize our troops. Think of what that does to developing brains and then ask yourself, is it a coincident that a number of the recent shooters where in their 20's?

    And we have been putting forth ideas. Armed guards in schools is not a new thing. Thousands of schools have had off duty or in some cases on duty police officers on campus even before Columbine in some states. I think better lock down and ID requirements are important. When I go onto school properties for work, especially in Washington State, the first thing I do is check in at the office. If not, it's typically only a matter of minutes before I am stopped and questioned.

    The issue isn't living in armed camps but rather recognizing the potential threat and being prepared for it. Telling teachers if they encounter an armed intruder to throw a book at them is a failed lesson in physics.

    And as far as living, I don't think anyone is talking about coming to your house and protecting you. You are an adult and not a helpless child. Having the right to live as you please is important and thats what those of us who have never killed anyone with our guns is looking for as well.

  • bigdan posted at 8:47 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Scoobey, I don't have an issue with the 23 executive actions, it was the recommendations to Congress that I started to depart from his message. These were again more about laws that would only affect those who obey laws. Also, the article didn't say nor did the Sheriff say that Obama wanted to publish the names of CCW holders. It is a concern in the wake of the stupidity of the Journal News who did provide a map with addresses of legal gun owners.

  • L Wallace posted at 8:22 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    L Wallace Posts: 1395

    I don't remember just who said something to this effect, "those who would trade their freedom for safety deserve neither". In this case we have those who would trade the freedoms of others for their idea of public safety. We already have redistribution of wealth and now "redistribution" of 2nd ammendment freeedom (for supposed safety) is being proposed.

  • Scoobey posted at 7:30 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Scoobey Posts: 939

    Sheriff Wheeler wants the public to reach out to local, state and federal officials to push back against the 23 executive actions proposed by the President. So Sheriff Wheeler is against, among other things:

    - making data available to the federal background check system
    - incentivizing states to share information with the federal background check system
    - giving law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun
    - launching a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign
    - providing guidance to licensed gun dealers on how to run background checks for private sellers
    - providing law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations
    - providing incentives for schools to hire school resource officers
    - developing model emergency-response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education
    - clarifying the scope of mental-health services that Medicaid plans must cover
    - launching a national dialogue on mental health

    I don't see anything in the President's executive actions about publicizing the names of concealed carry permit holders or about disarming law-abiding citizens, nor do I see him straying outside of his Constitutional authority.

  • LakeViewer posted at 6:48 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    LakeViewer Posts: 928

    Dan, I agree with much of what is being posted here. The mentally ill ( by default, you have to be mentally ill to perpetrate a crime like Sandy Hook) may find other means to kill. A large part of the problem is violence in games and the entertainment industry. Most of those who have perpetrated these horrendous acts have spent years being indoctrinated in violence, using weapons "easily" accessible, by video games. Here, we have more issues ... freedom of speech and profit for Hollywood.

    I grew up not being exposed to this garbage. The evolution of video is a root cause, without doubt. So, do we accept this to protect supposed freedoms? At the very least, these things need to be regulated and controlled. That is why we have government. Man will follow profit at any cost.

    I would posit that if gun enthusiasts, violence junkies and profiteers want to protect their constitutional liberties, they ought to help come up with solutions. Living in the middle of armed camps is not a solution. The rest of us should be entitled to live in tranquility and peace. Things written by man can be changed by man. A new constitution could happen.

    Back to our Sheriff. What solutions is he proposing? I think he is very naive.

  • SdptMom posted at 6:44 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    SdptMom Posts: 174

    We should strongly question Wheeler's absurd statements. Pres. Obama has not pressed fwd with "arbitary wishes"! The majority of US citizens WANT the peace of mind of having assault weapons + mag clips out of our communities. We WANT background checks done on everyone and good records maintained on everyone. Ridiculous how these old'cowboys don't mind acting entitled when its about having big guns and promoting a bigger govt footprint in our schools .. but turn-around to other issues, like Affordable Health Care or Social Security, they're screaming about citizens' entitlements and big gov't. Gun lobby is self-centered and fear-based. Lets not forget where Wheeler was on this issue at his next election.

  • bigdan posted at 6:08 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    And I agree, we need to address cancers. Lets start with Liberals who want to take away our freedoms and leave us unprotected.

  • bigdan posted at 6:07 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    And Lakeviewer, that is the rub. We cannot stop illegals, drugs and illegal weapons from coming across our boarders and getting into the hands of criminals and mentally disturbed people. Knowing that, how does disarming law abiding citizens make us all safer? I would rather own, train and never have to use my guns that not have them and find myself in a situation where I need them.

  • bigdan posted at 6:02 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Lakeviewer, keep in mind, CNN also reported there were two and maybe three shooter at Sandy Hook and backed it up with footage of the police chasing and capturing a guy in the woods who was wearing a dark jacket and camo pants. There were a great number of reporting mistakes by all the news agencies who made sweeping assumptions hoping to get a scoop. More relevant news comes out every day that corrects the original mistakes in reporting.

  • Keepingmyoath posted at 6:01 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Keepingmyoath Posts: 7

    I've been watching the media circus in what they call Washington DC. With all the perfuctuary liberal, sniveling, emotional, hanky stomping, roll over and pee on your belly garbage spewed from the mouths of the elitist limosine liberal crybabies on both left coasts, i'm ready to puke.

    When did America become a society of gutlessness. If there was one women or man present in any of the latest atrocities, who was legally armed and willing to put a bullet center of mass in any of these punk cowards when they first started their attack, i'm sure the outcome would have been much different. These punks arn't "supermen". They are cowards who prey upon they're victims in so called, "gun free" zones.

    How dare some rich "pie in the sky" politician tell me how to live my life. As long as I live within the
    Constitutional Common Law, leave me and mine alone. I'm a law abiding Constitutional Law Enforcement Officer and support Sheriff Wheeler and his statements. We need more like him and hope other Sheriff's,
    such as Boundary County's Sheriff Sprungl will do the same.

    An armed society is a polite society!

  • bigdan posted at 5:58 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Lakeviewer, I didn't suggest 98% were handguns, what I said was less than 2% were what you would incorrectly refer to as assault weapons. Long guns, which include shotguns, bolt action rifles, semi auto rifles and assault style rifles are in the same category with overall percentage of the type of gun discussed being less than 2% overall.

    And you may not know that Glock among others make a popular semi-auto handgun that accepts a 30 round magazine.

    The beauty of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is that they are as valid and applicable today as they were then. You can argue that the time, freedom of Press meant using a screw press, does that mean it doesn't apply to the Internet or TV?

    And there are a number of signers who echoed the thoughts that those who trade freedom for security deserve neither. I would imagine our founders would have been rational and used logic to realize the problem with these shootings has nothing to do with the tool the killer chose, but rather the killer themselves.

    The more time we divert from the real issue of mental health and mind altering medications that drive people to perform these acts and focus on the tool they choose to use the farther we will get from the solution. Of course if its your intent to take freedoms away from people, then you have to be pleased.

  • TAC posted at 5:16 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    TAC Posts: 10

    To quote Sheriff Wheeler: "Nowhere in my oath of office did I agree to uphold the arbitrary wishes of a President who strays outside his Constitutional authority."

    I am certainly reassured that we have a elected a Constitutional scholar as County Sheriff since he apparently knows more about the Constitution than does the President of the United States. It's about the hubris as much as it's about the guns.

  • LakeViewer posted at 4:34 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    LakeViewer Posts: 928

    Bigdan, it is common knowledge that the vast majority of gun deaths occur at the end of the barrel of common hand guns. You suggest 98%, which I cannot dispute. That is the price we pay for guns in our society, a society steeped in violence.

    Therefore, 2% that you mention for military style weapons is likely true. Is mass murder to be accepted just as single one-on-one murders? I think our society deserves an answer to both.

    Our society of 350 million is different from that of a few hundreds of thousands when the constitution was drafted. If the forefathers could have looked forward to see Sandy Hook, do you think they would have drafted a second amendment? I think not.

    The more people inhabiting our country, mean the more nuts we have on the streets. This is the wild 21st century, not the wild west. If we are to endure as a society, we need to address the cancers.

  • L Wallace posted at 4:17 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    L Wallace Posts: 1395

    This is not a lot different than airlines. Those for guns here will be the ones who step up and take down an airline hijacker. Those who are against guns will be far too afraid to step up and say "Let's roll" to stop such hijackers from harming us and our neighbors. I would much rather be along side those for guns than along side those against.

    I too am for Wheeler's statement & position. As I understand it, Obama's Illinois has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation and yet many more were killed there than New York and I heard another news story that said there were more homicides against Americans in Illinois than in Afghanistan.

    Disarming innocent citizens will not protect other innocent citizens. Banning gun style in stocks & accessories is childish.Tools do not kill people, people use tools to kill people. Any gun is just a tool and only as dangerous as the operator of that tool.

    Many people are killed and maimed each year from drunk driving. Shouldn't we ban automobiles? One argument makes as much sense as the other.

    Lakeviewer, you are getting "glassy-eyed" looking at the lake too long. [wink] [wink]

    Highwayman, the sheriff's statement is about protecting ALL the people and wants all the help he can get from those of us who can properly handle the tools necessary for a safe society.

  • LakeViewer posted at 3:51 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    LakeViewer Posts: 928


    I think there is little doubt about the weapons used in CT. This from CNN:

    "The primary weapon used in the attack was a "Bushmaster AR-15 assault-type weapon," said Connecticut State Police Lt. Paul Vance. The rifle is a Bushmaster version of a widely made AR-15, the civilian version of the M-16 rifle used by the U.S. military. The original M-16 patent ran out years ago, and now the AR-15 is manufactured by several gunmakers. Unlike the military version, the AR-15 is a semiautomatic, firing one bullet per squeeze of the trigger. But like the M-16, ammunition is loaded through a magazine. In the school shooting, police say Lanza's rifle used numerous 30-round magazines. An AR-15 is usually capable of firing a rate of 45 rounds per minute in semiautomatic mode."

    Until the state police amend their report, I think it is clear. Why would numerous 30 round magazines have been found at the scene? It is not time to categorize assault weapons with 30 round magazines a machine gun? I think so, and I think the president could do that with an executive order. But he would rather congress step up to the task. However, it may be to late in another school with another nut behind the trigger. I hope it is not one of our neighbors or friends kids.

  • bigdan posted at 3:35 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    BCresident, they reconfirmed it on the 17th as have the authorities. The Bushmaster was in the trunk of the car. If he never left the building once he went in, how did the Bushmaster end up in the trunk of his mom's car?

    And it was the medical examiner who first said there was .223 brass found in the school only to later have the the report changed. It was four handguns, no rifles. and no .223

    Your not still believing that AR stands for assault rifle are you?

  • bigdan posted at 3:32 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    MichealN, we have plenty of room on our property, you are welcome to come over LOL!

  • bigdan posted at 3:30 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Lakeviewer, please document the number of shootings the AR-15 has been a part of. According to the FBI and the CDC, these kinds of firearms account for less than 2% and as clearly shown in the case of Sandy Hook, the original reports were wrong, the shooter used hand guns. The majority of gun crimes are committed using handguns by an overwhelming majority. This proposed legislation is an anti gun agenda and no more.

    As for you being a gun owner but not practiced, I would encourage you to get some practice in. Should the time come when you have to protect yourself or your family, I would much prefer you feel comfortable with the operation of your guns and have the ability to properly use them. If not, and you hesitate, they may be used on you.

    The significant difference between the AR-15 and M-16 is the selector switch that allows you to shoot in full auto which is only available on the M-16. Take the plastic off of an AR-15 and fit wood stocks and you have a typical hunting rifle platform. It's the appearance that scares those who don't know about guns, not the operation of the platform itself.

    Attached is a long video that features a stock Ruger Mini 14 in stock form and the converted version with an adjustable butt and pistol grip. Same firing platform but the new stock makes you think it some how more powerful and under Obama's recommendations would be banned.

  • LakeViewer posted at 3:24 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    LakeViewer Posts: 928

    Michael, you post reminded me of an occasion when I did take the opportunity to avail myself of the protection of some folks that were 'packin'.

    My wife an I have a favorite huckleberry patch off the Priest Lake road. One year, when we approached our patch, we noticed a grizzly nearby with some cubs. I wasn't about to challenge his superiority in our patch. But on the other hand, my wife and I had traveled a good distance to get there, so we wanted our berries. We decided to go up the road to put some distance between ourselves and the griz. Not far, we notice some folks picking, and a couple of them were packin. We decided that we would join them. They didn't mind, and seemed to relate to our problem. We all got our berries, and my wife and I had peace of mind in the company of the armed pickers.

    I think this is what the second amendment is mostly about, personal protection, not weapons of mass destruction.

  • bigdan posted at 3:18 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Thanks for posting that Perki

  • bigdan posted at 3:17 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    I also wanted to respond to Highwayman's comments about the Second Amendment. Highwayman, you don't appear to be reading the entire Second Amendment nor paying attention to the punctuation. Here is is:

    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

    Now if it was just about militia's, it would have read like this:

    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state shall not be infringed"

    The language that was passed by Congress and ratified by the States clearly talks about both Militia that are well regulated and the right to keep and bear arms and states they "shall not be infringed".

    Additionally, if you would like there are a great number of writings by our founders and signers that point to the importance for all citizens to have guns, to be proficient with them and to use them for protection should it be from criminals or a government that becomes tyrannical. Let me know if you need some educational materials on the subject.

  • Perki posted at 2:31 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    This may be the one Dan is referring to.

  • MichaelN posted at 2:29 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    MichaelN Posts: 502

    I'm in support of Sheriff Wheeler and I am also proud that the Shoshone County Sheriff has take the same stance. If you choose not to own guns, that is fine, it is certainly your choice. But if and when the time comes that protection is needed, it might be nice to be a neighbor of Dan's, or someone else who is adequately protected and educated on the proper use of guns.

  • BCresident posted at 2:29 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    BCresident Posts: 78

    Bigdan what is it going to take for you to stop disseminating false information? NBC reported that on December 15th and they were wrong. He did use a Bushmaster AR15. Check the medical exaqminer statements and every credible news source in the country.

  • bonnerben posted at 2:25 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    bonnerben Posts: 291

    Thank you Sheriff Wheeler for standing with the legal gun owners of Bonner County. You are an elected official who lives up to the pledges you made during your campaigns.

    Highwaydude - Mr. Sheriff is what little kids call him. I guess you are in that category.

    Lawrence "fast and furious" - If you want to cower under a bench in the mall when bullets fly from the gun of a kook, you go right ahead and be a little puss. The rest of us would prefer to take action (you know, shoot back) and put a stop to the crime. As the saying from the American Revolution goes, "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees." Wear your knee pads little man. You will spend a lot of time in that compromising position!

  • LakeViewer posted at 2:10 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    LakeViewer Posts: 928

    Dan, I think the AR15 and the M16 are close cousins, according to wikipedia. Other that that, I know nothing about either, except that the AR15 has been the weapon of choice in a number of mass shootings, too many. The ambush of fireman responding to an arson fire was very recent.

    I have also seen nothing about the correction you refer to from NBC. The coroner's report indicated that the wounds were inflicted with a high power, fast repeating weapon. I will look for this to enlighten myself.

    I don't think the feds are looking to disarm our citizens. I have guns for protection. I am not a gun sportsman. If I needed them, I would probably harm myself before the perpetrator. I doubt that the feds will ever show up at my door to confiscate them.

  • BD posted at 1:57 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    BD Posts: 1

    Well said bigdan. Sherrif Wheeler's decision to support the Second Admendment was good news to me. Its frustrating that the President's proposals will ultimately only affect legal firearm owners since the mentally ill and criminals are not going to adhere to the law. While I feel for the families who lost loved ones in the Sandy Hook tragedy, I feel that Obama's executive orders provide little to no extra protection for kids, mall shoppers, movie viewers, etc.

  • bigdan posted at 1:36 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2807

    Lakeviewer, interestingly NBC has now corrected the Sandy Hook report, saying he shooter did not use a Bushmaster but had four handguns. The information was corrected by both state and federal officers involved in the investigation. So now what.

    Larry, sometimes you make a little sense, this is not one of those times. If you are going to be involved in a discussion, how about studying the subject matter? AR-15 is the designation you are looking for. Bushmaster makes an AR-15 platform as do several other manufactures. These are not military weapons as military weapons have selective fire, allowing the operator to fire in fully auto mode. As Perki tried to educate you, a fully automatic rifle is illegal. The only difference between an AR-15 platform and a semi-auto hunting rifle is the "scary" black plastic accessories.

    One of the Presidents recommendation was to ban any firearm hat had at least one military type feature. So if you have accessories on a hunting rifle it would be outlawed. Now I've heard this President say some rediculous hing but this takes the cake.

    And Larry, how is it a great number of us have owned AR platform rifles and 30 round magpies for years yet to date have killed no one? Do you understand how foolish you sound? Listen, take some time, get an education on this subject and gt back to us.

    For those who choose not to look it up, there were at least four studies done with regard to te Clinton assault weapons ban of 1994. The Justice Department, CDC, and two Congressional studies all concluded tat the ban had absolutely no effect on gun crimes. Additionally, "assault weapons" as have been incorrectly described account for less than 2% of all gun crimes in this country.

    Most of the Presidents recommenadtions and Executive Actions are feel good items that would not have prevented Sandy Hook from occurring. But hey, don't let facts get in he way of your misleading, emotion driven propaganda.

    I support Sheriff Wheeler and common sense.

  • drivy19 posted at 1:27 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    drivy19 Posts: 115

    Lake...: You REALLY need to take note:

    Article VI - U.S. Constitution

    "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

    The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

    As much as obama thinks he's "it", and notwithstanding your mindless support for his socialist demogogary, obama not only doesn't have the "power" to supplant the Constitution or circumvent it, but he also does not have the enforceable authority to demand compliance with ANY "executive order" that he chooses to issue....

    Despite what he and his sycophants "believe", obama is NOT "god" nor is he the "Second Coming". In case you missed it, "...Constitution...shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."

    Vietnam Combat Veteran 7/66-11/71

  • LakeViewer posted at 12:32 pm on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    LakeViewer Posts: 928

    It is interesting to me that Sheriff Wheeler seems to give broad interpretation and support to the second amendment, not agreeing to any action taken by the President to keep firearms capable of mass destruction out of the hands of the mentally ill and criminals.

    On the other hand, he thumbs his nose at the fourth amendment requiring a warrant to prevent unreasonable searches. As others have stated, what actions does he propose to protect the rest of the 300 plus million Americans that don't posses these weapons? What action does he propose to protect our rural schools from the mentally ill armed with these weapons?

    I agree with all of president Obama's proposals. I think he could have and should have, with executive order, proclaimed assault weapons and high capacity magazines as machine guns and prohibited them under the federal Firearms Control Act.

    We should understand that Sandy Hook could very well have occurred in one of our elementary schools. We must take whatever action is necessary to prevent this insane violence being unleashed upon our population. The Sheriff needs to part of the solution, not a protector of a large part of the problem.

  • Laurie Wadkins posted at 11:42 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Laurie Wadkins Posts: 638

    ..... I can't for the life of me understand our love of guns, especially our obcession with them up in these parts. But my opinion falls on deaf ears. Did you read about the guy who shot the Lynx? Now there's a "real" man!!! He says he couldn't see the cats feet because of the snow, yet he trapped it.... don't traps involve snagging a foot? What's up with that?

  • Perki posted at 11:42 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    Me? get a clue. I am not the one who obviously does not have the ability to distinguish between an automatic or semi- automatic weapon.

    automatic = pull trigger one time and several bullets fire automatically.

    semi-auto= pull trigger one time and 1 bullet is know, just like a double action revolver.

    That enough explaining your ignorance for me.

  • drivy19 posted at 11:29 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    drivy19 Posts: 115

    Let's bring you up-to-date...

    Because of the horrendous performance by the "organized" militia during the to-be-mentioned war, The Militia Act of 1903 (32 Stat. 775), also known as the Dick Act, was initiated by United States Secretary of War Elihu Root following the Spanish–American War of 1898, after the war demonstrated weaknesses in the militia, and in the entire U.S. military. The act formulated the concept of the National Guard and also ensured that all state military forces were simultaneously dual reservists under the authority of the Army Reserve.

    Oh, and "well-regulated" went out with the passage of the Militia Act of 1903.......

    I applaud Sheriff Wheeler for standing against the federal government's willful attempt to supercede the Constitution and the rights of "We The People"....

    Vietnam Combat Veteran 7/66-11/71

  • Perki posted at 10:54 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    Please excuse the big fingers in my prior post, I do know how to spell "getting"

  • Perki posted at 10:52 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 641

    Lawrence, your gewtting more ignorant everyday. You or I can not buy an M-16 without the proper federal permit. An M-16 is a "fully automatic" weapon and is not available to the general public. Thats one of the problems with you control freaks, You have no idea what your talking about.

  • Highwayman posted at 10:50 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Highwayman Posts: 77

    Hey Mr. Sheriff, you have a duty to protect all of the people, so you need to consider the entire Second Amendment. What about the phrase "well regulated?" Have you conveniently forgotten that part, Mr. Sheriff?

  • LawrenceFury posted at 10:33 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    LawrenceFury Posts: 800

    Hey, get all the M-16's you can carry. Feel free to get your little kids killed. I don't have any, so what does it concern me? You live by the sword, you die by it. It's just that you're taking the rest of us along for the ride. A few million wack-jobs holding the other 300 million hostage for their shooting pleasure. Course, you their logic, if I should be caught in a shooting situation, say at the mall or in a theater, and survive, then I could just go down, by me a gun and go after the shooter's family. His little old Mama, his kids, his siblings. Cause hey! It's the Wild Wild West. Law of the Jungle. The almighty gun rules!!!

  • Cozy Livin posted at 10:28 am on Fri, Jan 18, 2013.

    Cozy Livin Posts: 100

    Thanks for standing with us and the constitution Daryl!