Don’t let the liberals destroy North Idaho - Bonner County Daily Bee: Letters To Editor

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Don’t let the liberals destroy North Idaho

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Posted: Thursday, February 7, 2013 10:00 am

One of my greatest joys is my yearly visit to Sandpoint. I appreciate northern Idaho for its raw beauty, history and splendid inhabitants.

I recently had the fortune to meet a local couple who own a small business in Sandpoint. During the conversation, they shared that there are some California liberal transplants who are agitating for change. Let me share a warning: you must stop them at any cost.

I have lived in Southern California my whole life and the California of my youth is dead, precisely because of these type of people. Jerry Brown’s election in 1974 commenced the decline and his reelection will finish the job. We are the most heavily taxed, regulated and controlled state in the nation; we’re the ninth largest economy in the world, yet are $100s of billions in arrears.

Liberal ascendency always starts with a benign proposition: “You want safe streets, don’t you?” “You want clean air, don’t you?” – and then the control begins and never ends. Once liberals start they cannot stop, they are compelled to destroy freedom and bring about collectivism wherever they go. The liberals have destroyed California as sure as they will Idaho, if you give them the chance; please stop them before they take root.


Huntington Beach, Calif.

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  • Steve Hatcher posted at 8:41 am on Tue, Feb 26, 2013.

    Steve Hatcher Posts: 2570

    reddawn, Fox News is the only organization that is doing its job. I noticed that NBC/MSNBC just doctored up another video to make yet another republican look bad.

  • Right-On posted at 5:21 am on Mon, Feb 25, 2013.

    Right-On Posts: 124

    Reddawn, You should seriously look into biofeedback to control your kneejerk reactions to Leech's common sense. By the way, are you taking meds for your disorder?

  • Viper posted at 7:33 am on Wed, Feb 20, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    You all need to listen to Mark Levin. On the computer there is continual streamlining and you get there by addressing "The Mark Levin Show" Try listening to a real constitutional lawyer explaining how the constitution is being trashed daily by the obozo administration. All sides of the political spectrum get the heat on this program.

  • reddawn posted at 8:31 pm on Mon, Feb 18, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    leech, you are a poor excuse of a decent human being. My father was a prisoner of war for three years during tne secound world war. If anything the Republicans of yesterday of years gone by are no longer of people of the Republican party I use to be part of. You call yourselfs Republicans when all along you support nothing but war, control, dictators,your leaders are Rush, Fox news who are now at the lowest news program , loosing rateing due to lies at a all time low in ten years. Rush makes money on negitive, hateful energy. It has become the stupid party. No wonder, you all refuse to learn the truth on just about life.I am a proud conservative Democrat and we support our Vets more than the Republicans can lay claim to for over four years. You are senial or is it denial.

  • leechstomper posted at 9:05 am on Mon, Feb 18, 2013.

    leechstomper Posts: 1454

    Did Bob just call all people that are going to be on Obamacare cockroaches? Or, did he just call the vets that he takes into the Spokane facility cockroaches? Wait until his fawning disciples read THAT. Oh, wait, Bob's quality of followers probably also think that vets are cockroaches.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 8:31 pm on Sun, Feb 17, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Not to worry, Leech. The cockroach is a survivor. As for the VA, I drive VA consumers to Spokane for care. I rarely hear complaints and more often hear praise. However, I understand that the VA has special protocols to handle leeches.

    I say the Great Carsoni should throw his hat in the ring. If he's the real deal, he'll beat Rubio out for the nomination and then lose to Hillary. But, losing is part of the Republican training program. You'd think, with all that training and experience, they would do better.

  • mike from sagle posted at 12:15 pm on Sun, Feb 17, 2013.

    mike from sagle Posts: 2474

    "Obama gave the State of the Union address and all Carson got was a prayer."

    That's not true. Carson didn't just pray; he spanked Obama in front of the entire world, and is STILL receiving accolades for doing it, including a push for him to run for president. Dr.Carson is STILL riding high from the prayer breakfast spanking while Obama got no bump whatsoever from yet another boring SOTU speech......"The state of the union is strong!" said the man who is responsible for leading us into our first credit downgrade and over $16 trillion in debt......and with "no spending problem" whatsoever.
    The state of the union is strong? Yea right. The next thing they'll be telling us is that the Obama admin. is the most transparent adminstration in U.S. history.

  • leechstomper posted at 10:44 am on Sun, Feb 17, 2013.

    leechstomper Posts: 1454

    If Bob etc get their way with single payer, I wonder how they will explain away the higher unemployment rate due to the out of work insurance workers? Prop 13?

    As someone who has dealings with the VA, I wonder how ANYONE could possibly voluntarily want the government to get involved with ANYTHING that might be as critically time sensitive as health care.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 12:14 am on Sun, Feb 17, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Yet oddly, it was Obama who gave the State of the Union address and all Carson got was a prayer.

    Carson should have helped Rubio with his thirst and sweats. Maybe he can battle it out with Marco for the 2016 nomination. There seem to be lots of doctors who go into politics--De Mint, Broun, Gingrey, Frist, Barraso, Price, all of them Republicans. Why not have one run for president. Maybe that's what it will take to get single payer.

  • mike from sagle posted at 11:00 pm on Sat, Feb 16, 2013.

    mike from sagle Posts: 2474

    "Those that can, do; those that can't, teach."

    Wasn't Obama a teacher? Well, he was a community organizer, and they "do" things......not along the lines of being one of our country's greatest pediatric brain surgeons like Dr. Carson.....who seems to speak a language Americans can understand without needing for a teleprompter, a $1,000.00 per hour golf teacher,
    or a separate multi-million dollar vacation from Michelle.

    Obie got spanked and everyone knows it. Thank you Dr. Carson

  • Viper posted at 4:18 pm on Sat, Feb 16, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    Correcting; "school teaching"

  • Viper posted at 4:17 pm on Sat, Feb 16, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    Right on Dawg!!! Absolutely..

  • Viper posted at 4:16 pm on Sat, Feb 16, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    Sorry Bobbie; the majority of Americans do not want to raise the minimum wage. Your polling is false and misleading just like most of your comments. Sooner or later we may well hear you complain that schooling teaching is a minimum wage job. Go figure???

  • Viper posted at 4:12 pm on Sat, Feb 16, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    Minimum wage laws hurt employers, employees, and the purchasing public.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 12:52 pm on Sat, Feb 16, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Terry, I see you presented a conclusion without providing any evidence to support it. Clearly you don't think California would have been better off without Prop 13, but how could it be much worse off?

    At least rational minds are prevailing and things are turning around. Funny how that works when Republicans are out of the picture. Idaho should be so lucky.

    Dawg, why isn't Benjamin Carson a policy maker instead of a critic. Remember the old saw, "Those that can, do; those that can't, teach.

    Steve, you didn't do your homework. That is just not the case and there is plenty of information to support it, except on Fox. In addition, a majority of Americans support raising the minimum wage. Check the polling.

  • Steve Hatcher posted at 12:13 pm on Sat, Feb 16, 2013.

    Steve Hatcher Posts: 2570

    Every time we've had a minimum wage increase of late, there's been a spike in unemployment.

  • dawgshepherd posted at 9:03 am on Sat, Feb 16, 2013.

    dawgshepherd Posts: 580

    Dover Dave, I applaud you for keeping sanity in the forefront of these conversations. Obama and his drool-aid followers are starting to experience push back , even from their lapdog media. The whole mess is starting to come down around their ankles, with my new hero Dr Benjamin Carson leading the way. His common sense speech at the Prayer Breakfast in front of Obama will prove to be a classic and defining moment in the fall of liberalism.

  • Terry Lamb posted at 5:09 pm on Fri, Feb 15, 2013.

    Terry Lamb Posts: 49

    Aaah, I figured Mr. Hoskinson's dead-on observations would stir the liberal pot, and slosh some over the side. Bob Wynhausen did not disappoint, pulling down from his abode in the ether the conclusion that Californians would have been OK if it just weren't for those Californians instituting Prop 13.


    Bob, doggone it, you trying to reach a rational conclusion is just like trying to tighten a string with pieces missing in the middle.

  • Dover Dave posted at 9:30 am on Fri, Feb 15, 2013.

    Dover Dave Posts: 815

    I can't defend freedom to two people who don't understand it.

  • reddawn posted at 9:12 am on Fri, Feb 15, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    This ts the main reason I support many young folks to move to Washington, Oregon, the blue states, they pay less rent, get better paying jobs, make better money in the same jobs in the bluestates than in Idaho. And I pay for the move.Because I deeply care. When I walk the street of Sandpoint were are the young,not here my friends, why, bad paying jobs. To only get $7.25 an hour, pay high rent it is not reasonable for them to stay. Not even the Mill pays the same as in other states. Now our kids work in North Dakota digging for gas a making fantastic wages then coming home to the family. I give them credit, they are doing what they have to do.The up side tech is moving here which makes it possible for some better paying jobs. Not cutting trees, technology is our future .Then here we are, trees, water, we can be the State to keep our water clean, our forest healty by replanting when we cut, howvever we dont. Oregon makes you replant personal land, not here. Then we had the Wild Rose foundation who wanted to build a beautiful school for ag. Then the stock market fell, however it is over the top again. So the story is if we live in the past and dont create jobs for the shake of our future in Sandpoint, clean water,progressive forest logging and care, a school of higher learning we will and have become stale.Good paying jobs!

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 8:44 pm on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Dave, you must not have a job if you think employers don't have the power. If you were right, wages would be a lot higher. We wouldn't need to increase the minimum wage.

    What do think Right to Work is really about? It's the right to work for less. The fact that most RTW states have below average per capita income is testimony to the success of RTW.

    I have to say you leave me speechless. I find it impossible to respond to that argument. It's as if you told me that 5+5= baseball.

  • reddawn posted at 6:13 pm on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    DD,Please tell me what jobs you feel that in Sandpoint would be worth less than $10.00 an hour. I sure cannot seem to think of one.

  • Dover Dave posted at 5:41 pm on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    Dover Dave Posts: 815

    reddawn: No one is saying that a person isn't worth $7.25 per hour; only that some jobs aren't. It's not personal. It's no different than deciding not to buy a hammer because it's priced too high.

    Bob, employers don't have more power than employees. You're free to quit anytime and they're free to fire you at anytime, or at least they should be.

  • reddawn posted at 5:19 pm on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    I am in disappointed that any of you think that a person is only worth $7.25 an hour. Sorry Bob I must bring this up. I can remember when I first did a visit in California in the early 80s. My family was driving by a long line of people from Mexico, watching trucks drivng up and picking these Men up. I considered moving there for business reasons. So I was looking at new homes, I asked a contractor why so many people who were working in the yard didnt speak english and shared my experience of seeing the lines. He told me he could
    hire them for over half the price of Americans hence starting the whole mess we are in. As well in tri cities,the farmers tell me they cant find kids or adults to pick apples or grapes for wine. So many talk about the old days yet you wont see them out picking apples. So when I need hay picked up or apples picked this year I will lower the wages from 10.00 an hour to 7,25, these kids that live at home really dont need 10,00 they still live at home. Right ! I wonder when some of these old folks are going to care about people.My son is a Republican and is all for a mim wage , however some of these folks live in a world of clueless, a lack of humility and good luck, hope you never end up in a nursing home, karma can be a real bummer.

  • leechstomper posted at 4:48 pm on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    leechstomper Posts: 1454

    Ooh ooh I know, Bob! That was before the war on poverty took full effect and people still found it was more economical to work than just collect benefits. Since the war on poverty still hadn't taken full effect, illegal immigration was also still minimal and there was less of them competing for the same job. In effect, creating more of a demand for the available workforce and forcing the employers to pay more voluntarily than the minimum wage to fill their positions.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 4:07 pm on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Dave, as I pointed out earlier, the market doesn’t always work. Employers have more power than workers, that’s why we’re a Right to Work State. It’s also the reason for the Fair Labor Standards Act and the reason we don’t have sweat shops in the US any more. If you look at the recent growth of corporate profits and the concurring decline in employee wages you can see the problem. Not only is that bad for working people, it’s bad for the economy.

    Republicans say that raising the minimum wage is bad for workers—the low end worker will be laid off or just not hired. Yet, in 1968, when unemployment was less than 4%, the minimum wage was $1.60, the equivalent in today’s dollar of $10.50 an hour. Why such low unemployment I wonder?

  • Dover Dave posted at 1:51 pm on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    Dover Dave Posts: 815

    Redlash, none of what you're talking about is relevant. An employer is paying you for the labor you provide. How much money you spend is your business. If a high school kid who lives with his parents is as good as his job as a single mother of 5 he should be paid the same. Agreed?

    You don't need minimum wage laws to protect children or provide safe me working conditions.

    Neither one of you understand free markets. It's not up to you or me to decide these things, although it appears you want a Politburo to do so.

    At best an increase in the minimum wage gets passed along to consumers, so the purchasing power of minimum wage earners doesn't change; at worst people who's labor isn't worth minimum wage won't get hired.

  • backlash posted at 11:14 am on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    backlash Posts: 1509

    It is all a matter of "BALANCE"! You need labor laws which include minimum wages. If you do not
    have labor laws that includes minimum wage you can get the following.
    1. children working 16 hrs a day 7 days per week for nothing.
    2. monopolies that restrain any small company to even exist.
    3. unsafe working conditions
    4. Others too numerous to mention.

    Too much control is probably no better and leeds to the nanny state. To say you can not have any laws at all because it is a slippery slope is an inane argument and could be applied to any law.

    Question: If a person makes too little money to live on in this country and you are against minimum wage laws do you support food stamps so they can eat. In other words if companies will not pay enough
    to live on do you want to have the tax payers pay the bill. You could let them squat on federal or state lands in tent cities! What is the conservative answer to this problem? I think I know the answer, you give tax breaks to wealthy and they will build factories to make products that people do not have the money to buy????

  • reddawn posted at 10:51 am on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    Right on, so what do you make, do you have insurance, a mate working,kids,folks who are care givers do not get medical,and get paided 7.25 an hour and cannot afford e-mail, and need our food bank, so are you saying 7.25 is not a good wage. just wondering

  • reddawn posted at 10:46 am on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    ok right, you didnt say what you make, or do you get medical insurance,or do you have a mate working as well, or kids to feed, so are you saying that our care givers who get no insurance,and work for $7.25 an hour it is not ok. Just wondering.

  • Dover Dave posted at 10:45 am on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    Dover Dave Posts: 815

    Reddawn, just would you go about deciding what the minimum wage should be? The term "Living Wage" suggests that a person should be paid enough to live on but what if you have two people working at McDonalds, one of whom is a single mother of 5 working next to a high school kid who lives with his parents? Do you pay the mother of 5 more than the high school kid? Thing is, neither you or I should decide what McDonalds pay their employees. Just let the market work. You're selling your services to McDonalds at the best price you can get - no different than selling a TV on eBay.

  • Right-On posted at 9:58 am on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    Right-On Posts: 124

    Reddawn, I am one of those living on near-minimum wage. As much as I hate it, I have the option of seeking other employment. It is really up to me, NOT the government, to take care of myself. People like you want government to babysit you all of your life, from cradle to grave. I say to hell with that, I assume responsibility for my own life and actions, I am not a burden on the rest of society the way people like you are, and I am content to be free.

    Bobby, It is not the government's business to control private enterprise! If you'll look at history, you old curmudgeon, you'll see where government intrusion inevitably leads to more government intrusion. Put that in your wine glass and drink it.

  • dawgshepherd posted at 9:22 am on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    dawgshepherd Posts: 580

    reddawn, where in my post did you see any mention 'caregivers' or any reproach of people working any job to support themselves no matter how low the wise up and quit twisting my words
    I was referring to the millions who have found a home at their mailbox waiting for some government check they plan on surviving on indefinately, the ones that don't have the guts to take a low pay job till they can do better...the lazy grifters feeding on the rest of us, where their only job is to vote democrat...

  • Steve Hatcher posted at 8:56 am on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    Steve Hatcher Posts: 2570

    Speaking of coffee, you can get discounts if you are over 55 at many places, but you have to ask.

  • reddawn posted at 8:42 am on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    So Dawg thinks that all you care givers out their are lazy. And all you hotel room cleaners who clean up after your visitors are lazy, and all of you who wait on these folks who want their coffee refilled now on a ,25 cent tip if your lucky. Are lazy, Wow.

  • reddawn posted at 8:29 am on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    The question is would you work for 7,25 an hour?

  • Dover Dave posted at 8:05 am on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    Dover Dave Posts: 815

    dawg I think you nailed it in one sentence.

    Let the market decide what a job is worth. How many kids or adults a person is taking care of at home is not relevant. Should people with more dependents at home get paid more than a single person doing the same job? If you're worth more than the minimum wage your employer is probably already paying you more - if you're not and the minimum wage is raised you'll get laid off. Why is this so hard for you meddlers to understand?

  • dawgshepherd posted at 7:24 am on Thu, Feb 14, 2013.

    dawgshepherd Posts: 580

    Bob, I have come to the conclusion you advocate big intrusive out of control government that punishes the working man and showers the lazy grifters who are multiplying at an astonishing rate with our fruits of success to manage a narrow margin power base capable of bringing down our Republic with an as of yet unchecked appetiite for deficit spending and total disregard for the Constitution.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 10:26 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Right-on, that the primary reason that wage-and-hour laws were set up under the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1938. That put an end to "sweat shops" child labor, established the minimum wage, a limited work week and overtime pay. Pretty insidious government intrusion.

    If memory serves, it was a Democratic president who accomplished that.

    If you look at the history of the Bush Labor Dept. you'll see efforts to undermine those laws. They even tried to redefine overtime so there wouldn't be any. Imagine that from a Republican president.

  • reddawn posted at 10:16 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    I would like to hear what every one feels about this, and why you think that this $7.25 an hour is a living wage. And how you would pay rent, heat,food.gas,medical,clothes on $7.25 an hour, maybe you can enlighten me on how. And add two children and a single parent on that as well, I guess I need to hear how you figure that this is ok with you, maybe I need a math lesson.

  • reddawn posted at 10:08 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    So Right on would you work for $7.25 an hour? And is that what you would pay someone to work for you. We have plenty of folks in Bonner county working for $7.25 an hour, yet many call them poor and using the entitlement programs. Now why is that, they have kids, they are seniors. Do you know what companies and hotels in town that only pay $7,25 an hour. Have you ever taken the time to talk with any of them. It sounds that this is just fine to you. Wow,

  • Right-On posted at 9:00 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Right-On Posts: 124

    Reddawn, Instead of using government to meddle in the affairs of private business, why not allow private business to set its own wage scale? This seems to fit in quite well with the free market idea and the spirit of competition. My, what a unique idea!

  • reddawn posted at 4:52 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    @Todd,No I do not think $9:00 an hour is a living wage.The sad thing is if we dont vote for all states to at least pay $9:00 an hour they will not! We have educated people who are!working in jobs for such low money . What do you think Idaho feels is a living wage . Many people in Sandpoint are working for what ever they can find. I have spoken to many parents who clean hotel rooms for $8:00 an hour and have two kids or more and need our food bank. In order to work in a nursing home, or any adult family home they must take classes that cost money, and work for less than $8:00 an hour bathing,feeding,caring for the seniors,disabled. What I find very sad none of you are aware of this. How can that be ? So leach like I said get out and talk to people or better yet go to church and speak to your pastor who is alot more aware of what is going on.

  • Viper posted at 4:49 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    There goes 'Bobby boy again; talking about the current president of the US. (ie) empty suit.

  • Viper posted at 4:47 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    Don't fret; Bobby boy doesn't care about facts.

  • Viper posted at 4:46 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    Why stop there???

  • Viper posted at 4:46 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    If one does not like a $9.00 wage then one should sacrifice themself for the education and or experience that will generate a higher wage.

  • Viper posted at 4:45 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    Fiscal austerity always achieves the maximum goals for the people.

  • Old Cop posted at 3:43 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    Pie in the Sky? Leech. More like bats in the belfry

  • leechstomper posted at 3:22 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    leechstomper Posts: 1454

    RD: Shows how pie-in-the-sky your ideas are. It is supply and demand. Those people don't have to accept the position. They can hold out a touch and if the employer can't fill the position, they will up the wages until they can. As far as the workers go, they can also increase their worth by increasing their skill level with night classes etc. until they qualify for a better job.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 3:21 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Dave, I just see what works. Fiscal austerity never did anyone any good.

    Why not, indeed! Now that's a living wage, Steve.

  • Todd Allen posted at 3:16 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Todd Allen Posts: 210

    Reddawn you think $9 an hour is a living wage??

  • Steve Hatcher posted at 3:04 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Steve Hatcher Posts: 2570

    Why not boost the minimum wage to 20 bucks an hour?

  • reddawn posted at 12:58 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    @leech, just goes to show how lost you really are . You might want to talk to all the seniors around town who still are working to pay for heat. By the way stop by the nurseing home and find out what a care giver makes, and all those who work waiting on tables, and clean hotel rooms. Again you have your head in the sand. Care givers, no matter where they work, bathing,cleaning,feeding,make mim wage. Sometime get out and walk and talk to folks, you just might learn a thing or two.

  • Dover Dave posted at 12:34 pm on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Dover Dave Posts: 815

    Bob: "And yes, I believe California will begin to take off if they can get their fiscal house in order. Only time will tell."

    Of course your solution to "getting a fiscal house in order" is always ever increasing tax rates. Perhaps the latest increase in tax rates wasn't enough and yet higher rates are needed to REALLY get California moving and people will start moving to California to take advantage of these higher tax rates. Do I have this right?

  • leechstomper posted at 11:59 am on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    leechstomper Posts: 1454

    Since when do teenagers working part time need a liveable wage?

  • Sandpointman posted at 11:01 am on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Sandpointman Posts: 598

    stop being the "stupid party" has fallen on deaf ears.

  • Sandpointman posted at 11:01 am on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Sandpointman Posts: 598

    stop being the "stupid party" has fallen on deaf ears.

  • Sandpointman posted at 11:00 am on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Sandpointman Posts: 598

    stop being the "stupid party" has fallen on deaf ears.

  • Sandpointman posted at 11:00 am on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Sandpointman Posts: 598

    stop being the "stupid party" has fallen on deaf ears.

  • reddawn posted at 9:44 am on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    Those darn liberals they want to raise min wage to 9:00 an hour . But wait those darn Republicans say 7.25 an hour is living wage. Wow,

  • Old Cop posted at 5:37 am on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    Bobby, you and 'Lash are the ones spouting empty verbiage. Those vicious little digs like the one 'Lash posted at 6:16 pm on Tue, Feb 12 saying "Kenneth Lay of course was one of George Bush's best friends while their is no proof of any wrong doing." 'Lash even misspelled 'there'.
    'Lash doesn't know anything at all about George Bush's friends. He just read that poisonous crap on one of his miserable degraded left wing websites so he tries to perpetuate a description that may or may not be true. That they are acquainted with each other is easy to ascertain. The state of friendship is a different proposition altogether. For left wing hypocrites to overlook the friendships the Obamas maintained with a number of unsavory characters and then hit George with totally unproven conjectures tying him to Ken Lay is absolutely ridiculous. How miserable for a man to live as unhappy, depressed and wretched as 'Lash.

  • Old Cop posted at 4:40 am on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    Well excusez-moi, I do believe 'Lash with his preposterous diatribes is not taking a position, he is committing a debacle. I was not challenging him, I was merely stating my opinion as to the accuracy of his statements. You guys should have spent more time studying semantics.
    As for an empty gun, I say poppycock. There's never a need for no ST---ING gun when it's so easy to step on baby chicks.

  • Sandpointman posted at 3:34 am on Wed, Feb 13, 2013.

    Sandpointman Posts: 598

    OC asks..." I'm rather curious what position he thinks I challenged."

    That would be mentally challenged.

  • Right-On posted at 6:51 pm on Tue, Feb 12, 2013.

    Right-On Posts: 124

    Bobbie, your own post has absolutely no more merit that the one you just criticized! If you want to get the one-up on Old Cop, you need to be specific and explain why his was "nothing but empty rhetoric." You need to also tell us what it was about Old Cop's post that you were "criticizing with that empty gun."

    Before you try to turn the tables on me, consider the merits of my post: I have just explained to you a better way of arguing--by presenting the facts as well as reasons why those facts are valid or invalid.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 6:21 pm on Tue, Feb 12, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    You challenged Backlash at 6:14 AM with absolutely nothing be empty rhetoric. But isn't that SOP for you.

    If you like, you might tell us what you were criticizing with that empty gun.

  • backlash posted at 6:16 pm on Tue, Feb 12, 2013.

    backlash Posts: 1509

    Old Cop: You certainly challenged my position when you wrote: "I grant that poor 'Lash is sincere and he truly believes the malarkey he so miserably extols but his facts are in error and his judgement is awry,. Consequently the conclusions he draws have absolutely no validity whatsoever."

    My position is that deregulation of energy with passage of "Gramm's Energy Commodity Deregulation Bill" turned electrical energy into a commodity and the speculators were set free to to treat it just like oil and trade blocks of power. Enron and other traders then used many illegal tactics to make the prices
    climb as much as 400% with many illegal schemes. At that point as power was climbing at a enormous rate, many companies, municipalities and States (California) bought contracts to lock in power rates before they went any higher. Then at that point Republican's claimed it was Gray Davis that was at fault for buying overly expensive power. Many of these illegal policies are readily available if you Google the case of Snohomish Power and Enron. To blame liberals for the Enron-California power debacle can only be done by suspending the facts.

    Where are your facts Old Cop to refute what I claim:

    That is why the aluminum industry in Spokane realized they could sell their power and make more money than producing aluminum in Spokane.

    Kenneth Lay of course was one of George Bush's best friends while their is no proof of any wrong doing.
    GOP os a acronym for Gas, Oil and Petroleum

  • Old Cop posted at 4:59 pm on Tue, Feb 12, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    Bobby says "Once again the OldMan challenges a position with absolutely no evidence to support his stance. Could the suit be emptier?"
    I'm rather curious what position he thinks I challenged. It's evident that the one that knows not the truth is dragging another Red Herring out. Look back and reread my Posts and let me know if you find any challenge I made. There is an utter lack of integrity in everything Bobby touches.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 1:26 pm on Tue, Feb 12, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Dave, as I have pointed out several times, the change in accounting that merged the FICA tax collections into the general fund was done during the Vietnam War. Many presidents, both Democrat and Republican, had the change to reverse that, but no one did.

    I'd say it's become the standard for measuring deficits. Imagine how much bigger Reagan's would have been without it.

    And yes, I believe California will begin to take off if they can get their fiscal house in order. Only time will tell.

  • Dover Dave posted at 12:14 pm on Tue, Feb 12, 2013.

    Dover Dave Posts: 815

    Bob, our last actual surplus was in the late 50's. Clinton's so-called "surplus" can only be claimed by using excess FICA contributions that masked the actual deficit we had.

    But never mind. We've been down this road before.

    If your theory is correct - that the Clinton tax rate increases in the early 90's caused the economic boom that ensued - then California is poised to REALLY take off. Correct?

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 12:02 pm on Tue, Feb 12, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Once again, the OldMan challenges a position with absolutely no evidence to support his stance. Could the suit be emptier?

  • Steve Hatcher posted at 11:45 am on Tue, Feb 12, 2013.

    Steve Hatcher Posts: 2570

    You're right Sandpointman, the Republicans have been stupid, although that adjective was meant to wake the party up, sort of like a slap in the face. However, the remark did not fall on deaf ears.

  • Sandpointman posted at 10:23 am on Tue, Feb 12, 2013.

    Sandpointman Posts: 598

    Obviously Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal's (ironic) call to the Republican Party to stop being the "stupid party" has fallen on deaf ears.

  • backlash posted at 10:05 am on Tue, Feb 12, 2013.

    backlash Posts: 1509

    Old Cop: As usual you give no facts and and make a personal attack.
    The things I wrote about were proven in a court of law and uncover by Snohomish Power by reviewing tapes of Energy Traders audio tapes:

    The PUD spent several months reviewing thousands of hours of audio tapes and researching Enron records in order to help negate a $180 million lawsuit that Enron filed against the PUD for canceling the energy contract in 2001. FERC, which initially argued the tapes should not be considered in ongoing Enron proceedings, largely ignored pleas from Northwest utilities and consumers to properly investigate market manipulation by Enron.

    In the taped conversations, Enron employees talked openly about "stealing" up to $2 million a day from California during the energy crisis. Traders also joke about taking money from Grandma Millie and making "buckets of money" from over-scheduling electricity transmission lines and taking power plants off line.

    Related financial documents, covering the period of January 2000 through mid-2001, showed Enron manipulated energy markets on 88 percent of the days the PUD tracked. In one "ricochet" scheme, Enron illegally obtained $222,678 in a three-hour period by purchasing power in California, shipping it to Oregon where its original source was masked, and then reselling it into the California market for $750 per megawatt-hour. The scheme allowed Enron to avoid price caps.

    Huge Support for PUD

    Members of the Washington congressional delegation joined with the PUD in calling on FERC to launch a special investigation and take action against Enron. U.S. Senator Maria Cantwell criticized FERC for its efforts in late 2003 to quash a subpoena for Enron audiotapes sought by the PUD. Meanwhile, U.S. Reps. Jay Inslee and Rick Larsen stressed FERC's obligation "to protect electricity customers from just and unreasonable rates."

    The Enron tapes thrust Snohomish PUD into the national - and even international - media spotlight. In June 2004, the utility managed hundreds of media stories, generating coverage on all three major TV networks, plus pieces by CNN, BBC, CBC, National Public Radio, Voice of America and news reports in France, Australia and Japan. Newspaper coverage appeared throughout the country, including articles in the New York Times, Washington Post, L.A. Times, Houston Chronicle, the Oregonian and the San Francisco Chronicle. Associated Press, Reuters, Dow Jones Newswire and other wire services also covered the story. Even Comedy Central weighed in, creating a skit about the Enron tapes for the "Daily Show with Jon Stewart."

  • Old Cop posted at 6:14 am on Tue, Feb 12, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    I grant that poor 'Lash is sincere and he truly believes the malarkey he so miserably extols but his facts are in error and his judgement is awry,. Consequently the conclusions he draws have absolutely no validity whatsoever.

  • backlash posted at 9:02 pm on Mon, Feb 11, 2013.

    backlash Posts: 1509

    ENRON: Was not caused by Gray Davis or progressives and had everything to do with the conservative
    idea to deregulate everything into a commodity (including the planet itself) and with passage of Gramm's energy commodity deregulation bill turned energy into a commodity and the speculators were set free to steal us blind. California alone was taken for $5,000,000,000. Due to manipulation, prices skyrocketed, as energy producers orchestrated many illegal actions , traders, caused super price spikes of 100's of percent , caused outages and rolling blackouts by scheduling maintenance to happen during peak power needs. Sold blocks of power back and forth between traders in a daisy chain going round and round each time boosting the price. In the end increasing the price 400% and many bought contracts
    as prices were skyrocketing so fast they were afraid not to.

    The famous story (scandal) of traders laughing about poor grandma Millie who could not pay her power bill due to it had gone up 400% as they laughed about her plight as they were making lots of money. Snohomish Power listen to thousands of hours of sound recording of the traders and uncovered the plot
    and sued.

    I believe it is the Blue states that are the net payers to the tax system while the red states are the net takers if memory serves me correctly?

    What big city in the world today is not having financial problems?????????

    Once again Gramm of Gramm-Leech-Bliely was a major cause of trillions of dollars of capital destruction
    and is a major cause of why Cities, States, countries are having financial problems today.

    It is not all the fault of conservatives that is for sure but for them to claim all the problems we face are
    because of liberals is BEYOND STUPID!

  • mike from sagle posted at 7:35 pm on Mon, Feb 11, 2013.

    mike from sagle Posts: 2474

    Nearly 4 million more people have left California in the last two decades than have come from other states. According to the Tax Foundation, California has the 48th-worst business tax climate. Its income tax is steeply progressive. Millionaires pay a top rate of 10.3%, the third-highest in the country. But middle-class workers—those who earn more than $48,000—pay a top rate of 9.3%, which is higher than what millionaires pay in 47 states.

    @capc832ret: yes- liberals do like to talk big about compassion and helping those less fortunate.
    And they do more than talk- they even give poor people money which they take from people who earn it. That's what they call compassion, and the biggest such braggarts on this blog are lefties.

    @Viper: Yea, most people forget that Bush was not a real conservative. Romney wasn't even a lukewarm conservative. If we get a real conservative to vote for in 2016 (like Rubio) Billary will just have to hang up that little Mao suit of hers for good.

  • leechstomper posted at 2:42 pm on Mon, Feb 11, 2013.

    leechstomper Posts: 1454

    And now a liberal throwing gas on the flames.

  • Viper posted at 2:03 pm on Mon, Feb 11, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    Bush was no conservative but a RINO. Maybe the word progressive RINO is more appropriate.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 12:08 pm on Mon, Feb 11, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Oddly, Leech, it was a liberal president who was the last to produce a federal surplus. And, it was a so-called conservative president who blew the whole system up. Go figure!

  • leechstomper posted at 10:09 am on Mon, Feb 11, 2013.

    leechstomper Posts: 1454

    As Nancy Pelosi said on the Sunday morning talk shows: " the amount of deficit we have and the interest being paid is obscene". Although, even is this moment of rare consciousness, The California liberal could not bring herself to concede that even if we would tax the top 5% of earners at a 100% tax rate it would only cover 1/3 of the deficit spending. The rest of the funds must come as manna from heaven.

    Such is the fiscal thinking from liberals.

  • Steve Hatcher posted at 9:46 am on Mon, Feb 11, 2013.

    Steve Hatcher Posts: 2570

    Each state is like an experiment. California has a different mentality than Idaho, but to suggest that we should endorse a cookie-cutter system of states, and that we should be more like the Golden State with its high tax rates to support its handouts doesn't seem to be what many of us conservative transplants came here for in the first place. In any case, California is losing its tax base as business and wealth continues to fly out of California. The voters there may have to approve another tax hike soon.

  • leechstomper posted at 9:43 am on Mon, Feb 11, 2013.

    leechstomper Posts: 1454

    California, California, California.... Why all of this concern about a place with no basis of reality? Time would be better spent discussing a place closer to being real - like Oz.

  • Old Cop posted at 9:36 am on Mon, Feb 11, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    @Bill Litsinger:
    That's essentially the same story I heard about Davis. You just tell it better than I can. I once had good contacts with the State Police and the CHP. All dead now. I'm down to only four old buddies from the PD. The State Police told some good stories that never made it into the news. That didn't mean they weren't true. There is a certain satisfaction in knowing things that others don't

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 11:16 pm on Sun, Feb 10, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Bill, those tax increases were passed by a majority of California voters. The will of the people. Amazing in light of the fact that the opposition spent more money than the proponents.

    I sure would like to see some documentation for that "story". You must have a source, I'll bet it's a fiction writer. I don't recall that story line at all. I didn't think you were a member of the make-stuff-up club.

  • Viper posted at 8:59 pm on Sun, Feb 10, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    Remember Old Cop, liberals are nothing more than moronic drones infecting society.

  • WML posted at 8:58 pm on Sun, Feb 10, 2013.

    WML Posts: 665

    @Bob Wynhausen - post of 10:25 a.m. First of all Bob, California politicians have seldom had a problem convincing people to raise taxes. California has some of the highest taxes in the nation. California also has one of the highest unemployment rates.

    Re: Gray Davis - it's not my version, it was the version that he finally admitted to once the media broguht forth the facts. There were memos (written- electronic) floating around the capital during his first term that had to do with finances and projected revenues. During the campaign he lied about certain facts and figues and when the truth came out just after the election he pleaded ignorance. Then not to long after that someone released the memos to the press and Davis had to do the tight crouch dance to avoid being labeled a liar. It finally caught up with him and even some democrats turned on him. It wasn't but about 3-4 months later that talk of a recall was being planned. Enron was part of the cover up and those that knew Sacramento well also knew that Davis was in the loop on the entire Enron debacle. Politics as usaul for today's leaders both R and D.

  • Viper posted at 8:57 pm on Sun, Feb 10, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    Church and Andres were good leaders? In your dreams Wynie boy. .

  • Viper posted at 6:22 pm on Sun, Feb 10, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    Yeah!! this is what we need, certainly, more liberal socialits and one worlders to misguide those that are underinfomed. Time to tar and feather all liberals for their good health.

  • Viper posted at 6:20 pm on Sun, Feb 10, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    One word is correct; "flakey"..

  • Viper posted at 6:19 pm on Sun, Feb 10, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    The real fascist are found in Washington D.C. in places like the EPA and etc.

  • Viper posted at 6:16 pm on Sun, Feb 10, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    That is because most liberals are radical hipocrites.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 5:49 pm on Sun, Feb 10, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    NT4T, both Church and Andrus were left-wing radicals compared to those who represent Idaho. Church was also one of the early detractors of the Vietnam War, along with Wayne Morse of Oregon. I'd love to see more leaders like them in Idaho.

    Those that we currently have only make news when the cops get involved.

  • Old Cop posted at 3:45 pm on Sun, Feb 10, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    Hey Bobby...... Jerry just did what liberals always do. They invariably keep making the same mistake over and over again hoping for different results. It's the old "I'm so stupid Syndrome" that infects liberals worldwide. It must be in the genes.

  • No Time 4 Tea posted at 1:55 pm on Sun, Feb 10, 2013.

    No Time 4 Tea Posts: 21

    Well known here that what has ruined North Idaho already is influx of California folks. Idaho used to be the State of Frank Church and Cecil Andrus. Far as I am concerned, you can all go back, or some place else to create your Libertarian utopia.

  • Old Cop posted at 11:34 am on Sun, Feb 10, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    A house is not a home Bobby. I wouldn't recommend you sleep there.
    I predict that catastrophe will follow Jerry wherever he goes until the day he dies. The single bright spot that I can see is the man has never perpetuated the species. I only wish on behalf of California that old Pat had done the same. I didn't vote for the RINO either. You know the one that married into the Kennedy family. I knew when to pack up and leave. You should take lessons, it's time for West Virginia, Bobby.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 10:25 am on Sun, Feb 10, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Bill, the pudding is on the stove. We will know before long whether Jerry Brown is on the right track. Somehow he convinced the voters of California to raise their own taxes. That along is the mark of a unique leader.

    Since California has been running large gaps between revenue and spending, narrowing that gap is step one. The new taxes will start that process. If successful, we may even see a surplus. But outlook is also important. When was the last time anyone even talked about a surplus in Calif. I may root incessantly for success, but you seem be to on the side of failure.

    As for Gray Davis, what's your version?

  • WML posted at 9:13 am on Sun, Feb 10, 2013.

    WML Posts: 665

    @Bob Wynhausen - post of 10:25 p.m. Bob, that report you are referring to is just one of about 5 in the last 4 years that has predicted that California will balance a budget or have a surplus. As recently as last Sunday there were democrats in California cautioning people about this so-called "surplus."

    For California to have a surplus several things must happen. None of these things happened in the last 4 years and there are plenty of moderate democrats that see some need for caution in counting on a surplus in the near future.

    Californis still has some of the highest taxes, lowest wages (past 3-5 years) and a larger by the day % of people that depend on the government for the basics that the majority of Americans do for themselves.

    But what do we expect from you other than your usual defense of the liberals and condemnation of almost anything else? The proof is in the pudding, you live with whon you identify as the enemy. I guess actions speak louder than words.

    You are either ill informed about the Gray Davis incident or misleading in your blogs. One way or another, you lose credability.

    Bill Litsinger

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 7:35 am on Sun, Feb 10, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Yes, OldMan, and Arnold would be a big customer at the Stanford House.

    For a Republican and an action hero, Schwarzenegger was pretty unsuccessful as a governor.

    And, Davis' recall was based primarily on the energy problem and big money coming from Darrell Issa, who had his eye on the seat before Arnold announced. Wouldn't Issa have made a great governor. And I thought Arnold was a let down.

    But that still begs the question. Brown is doing a very effective job and the key has been raising taxes.

  • Old Cop posted at 3:33 am on Sun, Feb 10, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    Nobody mentions that Gray Davis was successfully recalled when it became crystal clear that he was undoubtedly the most hapless and the most inept maladroit ever elected governor of California. A bigger Obamanation than Obama is hard to feature. Gray's career was built on his success acting as Jerry Brown's procurer in chief during Jerry's previous terms as governor. That's a fine recommendation to run Sally Stanford's house but not for running the state of California.

  • reddawn posted at 10:29 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    Well here we are in this Republican state that wants to end personal property tax on big business so we can all get a 10% tax hike on our homes, now thats what we call a party that wants to not raise taxes, just on the working class. Right! The rich get richer on the backs of us all. Wow!

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 10:25 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    I wonder if reports of California's demise might be a little premature?

    Surprise! Damn those flaky liberals.

  • captaindan posted at 10:03 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    captaindan Posts: 824

    I've often wondered What to say to Some of these thoughts posted by Left, republicain, conservatives. This quote sums it up for me. "ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them."--- Thomas Jefferson Bang your dead.

  • capc832ret posted at 8:04 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    capc832ret Posts: 76

    Mike from sagel,your right about reddawn.this is what I'm talking about,libs are the most selfish,self centered narsisist ever to crawl out of the abyss.they're just like the weenie head in the white house that's ruined this country.Reddawn can't even see beyond their nose to see the misery they caused.the people who live and work here can't even buy on 1st. because most of them are liberals that charge an arm and a leg for everything.the working poor are screwed here!I ask anyone to go to any of the stores I mentioned,and see if they will give from theyre heart to anyone.then you pay through the nose.I won't buy from know libs,I have mega only goes to conservative business. I hope all those who are suffering from the obamanation economy to take they're shopping to places that did vote for comrade Obama.I'm going to start a web page exposing liberal businesses in standpoint,its high time they fell the pain of his highass ,and his stupid socolist ideology.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 7:27 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    TFTM, you apparently can't read very well. I at didn't accuse the Bush Adm of CREATING Enron. I didn't even accuse them of abetting Enron, although some might.

    The problems began with market manipulation in the late 90's. Some even suggest that it started when Pete Wilson provided partial deregulation of the electricity market in 1996. Funny how disaster seems to follow Republican supported deregulation.

    If you look at the history of that episode you will find that California sought the assistance of a federal agency know as FERC, The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. FERC essentially told California they were crazy to suggest the Enron was manipulating the market and did nothing. I suspect that California being a blue state may have had something to do with it. They just left Davis and California to twist in the wind.

    Even our own Senator Larry Craig scoffed at the time that California was misguided about such manipulation, that it just wasn’t possible.

  • Thoughtsfromthemiddle posted at 6:30 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Thoughtsfromthemiddle Posts: 17

    I left California in 2004. So, Bob W. I was there during the reign Gray Davis, the Enron mess and the California power shortages. To accuse the Bush administration of creating Enron who ultimately fleeced the State of California which lead to Gray Davis being thrown out of office is just plain ignorant.
    First of all, out-of-control state environmental regulations prevented California’s utility companies like PG&E from upgrading and increasing the number of their power transmission lines around the state. So, during increased periods of power usage it wasn’t possible to move enough power from one part of the state to the other. Next, the state’s environmental regulations made it impossible for the state’s utility companies to build more power generation plants. This resulted in the state having to go to sources like Enron to buy power. However, instead of trying to buy power at market prices, the state told their electricity buyers to buy electricity at any price. As such, unscrupulous companies like Enron sold electricity to the state at many times the going rate and California simply wrote the check. Why didn’t the state demand that companies like Enron sell electricity to them at market prices? No one knows. Funny thing about electricity, once a single watt of electricity leaves the generation plant, it has to be used or it disappears. In other words it can’t be stored like a tomato or a loaf of bread. So, why didn’t the state say to the generators “we’ll buy it at market prices or forget it.” In the end, the crooks running Enron got what they deserved.
    However, Enron and the electricity shortage wasn’t Davis’ biggest problem. Runaway government spending and huge budget deficits were, and George Bush had nothing to do with it. That’s the real story of Gray Davis.

  • wilson posted at 6:12 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    wilson Posts: 1071

    Mike - I have met Dr. Carson and he is REALLY a real person - what you saw on T V is who he really is - need a whole lot more like him-

  • wilson posted at 6:09 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    wilson Posts: 1071

    Wyndi one - Yup- born and raised in Seattle - lived there for 42 years - seen it go from a great place to one overly regulated by do-gooders from elsewhere - Lived in several large cities - some good -others nor so good - Tallahassee is good - Phoenix good - Portland not so good.

  • Viper posted at 5:48 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    There are no well run cities by democrats. For example Chicago has highest levels of crime and corruption of any city in the USA. Chicago is completely administered by democrats. It all has nothin to do with democrats or republicans but has everything to do with progressives.

  • Viper posted at 5:43 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    California has been a dead head state since the 60's. Drug infested, pervert infested, mecca of hostility and in-tolerance. A secure land of fruits and nuts.

  • Viper posted at 5:42 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    Obviously you do not read at all.

  • Viper posted at 5:29 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    Yup. Obama is doing it the same as the presidents of the past. What is in it for ME crowd. There is no larger threat then the TYRANT now acting as POTUS. Most of the election results were fradulent as many voters voted twice.(Already documented on the news) The largest threat to national security are the progressive liberals and RINOS who continually spend without conscience. Obama is trying to economically strangle and destroy the USA. When will others wake up and realize this fact?

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 4:25 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Here we go again. Those who disagree with Godwin's Law are now equating George W Bush to Hitler. I never would not have expected a conservative to do that. Even I might disagree with that sort of characterization.

    I see the OldMan is back with more substantial material to add to the discussion. Irrelevancy, thy name is OldMan. But don't get cocky, there are several of your ilk nipping at your heels.

  • mike from sagle posted at 3:59 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    mike from sagle Posts: 2474

    @reddawn "I have given my life to the disabled, the sick. I am a great neighbor"

    And modest too. If you're anything, you're a great talker because it's all you do. You talk about how great you are, how much money you make, and how much your house it worth etc etc etc.
    I am sick with cancer, saw you boasting of your compassion and asked you for help.
    You refused to help me, but here you are still boasting. Yes, you think you're really great.

    On the other hand, I've had several conservatives actually offer to help. I guess that's what separates the kinds of people in the two parties.

  • mike from sagle posted at 3:48 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    mike from sagle Posts: 2474

    @Bob "Davis was caught up in the Enron fraud, ignored by the Bush Adm" says the same man who checks anyone who DARES vilolate his sacred Godwin's law. Nope nope nope can't bring up Hitler, but it's perfectly OK to blame everything wrong under heaven on Bush while letting a pathological liar potus like we have now get away with murder. Moose forgot to mention the corrupt media which kisses the jack boots of the current admin. Speaking of.....

    It was a JOY listening to Dr. Carson slap the daylights out of Obama wghile he was sitting there with that stupid look on his face at the prayer breakfast lol. Now we have Menedez-D and Jesse Jackson Jr.-D getting their karma. THAT's what I call "a light at the end of the tunnel."

  • Here's What I Say posted at 3:47 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Here's What I Say Posts: 1240

    It's oozing from all sides here, as it does on every comment section.

  • Old Cop posted at 3:43 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    We now have a long list of cities and states where the Wyndi One has resided. He can't have lived very long in any one place. I would presume he quickly wore out his welcome wherever he went. I'm sorta curious, did he leave just one step ahead of the minions of the law? Would he ever dare to go back? It's a puzzlement.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 3:06 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    TFTM, in fairness, Gray Davis was caught up in the Enron fraud, ignored by the Bush Adm, which required the state to spend a bundle on energy and utility assets. That was hardly his fault.

    Moose, I think the Oligarchs are a much bigger threat. They are sucking up most of our national income leaving the rest of us unable to support ourselves or the economy. But, the last election showed a chink in their armor. Money failed to buy many members of Congress and couldn't even fix the Ohio election results.

    There may be a light at the end of the tunnel.

  • Northwoods Bull Moose posted at 2:06 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Northwoods Bull Moose Posts: 63

    Thanks Michael ... truer words could not be written.

    I personally believe that the biggest threat to our nation is not any foreign power nor any terrorist organization ... it is the Democrat Party (or more correctly the Socialist/Communist Democrat Party that they have evolved into over the past 20 years).

    Our nation is literally being destroyed from within ... Idaho may be one of the last bastions of freedom in a nation that is inexorably headed down the road to a Marxist/communist state. We already have an avowed Marxist Revolutionary as our President .. the rest will follow soon.

  • Thoughtsfromthemiddle posted at 12:04 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Thoughtsfromthemiddle Posts: 17

    Oh! How could I've forgoten the Gray Davis years! He was a splendid example fiscal conservatism, wasn't he?

    I too stopped in California for about 25 years on my way from Arizona to North Idaho. California, because of it's hugely liberal ideas has become a laughing stock. Michael Hoskinson is spot-on. Liberal Democrat governing doesn't work.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 12:00 pm on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Tell me, Wilson, have you ever lived in Portland or Seattle. I have. I’ve also lived in Houston and Los Angeles and spent four years in the Bay Area during my college days. Lots of exposure to big cities. How about you?

    Lockwood and O’Reilly are great citizens of Bonner County, making substantial contributions to the well-being of the community. If you could only do so well. You’d be lucky to emulate your namesake in “Castaway”.

  • Thoughtsfromthemiddle posted at 11:48 am on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Thoughtsfromthemiddle Posts: 17

    Ok Just Me, if we are to accept that California was a great state until Reagan became governor, doesn't it follow then that once Jerry Brown became governor he would have fixed California? After all, he did his best to undo everything Reagan did. Then there were the Schwarzenegger years and now they have Jerry Brown back. Also, you have to consider that the Democrats have been firmly in control of both houses of the California's legislature for a long time now. My point is that the Democrats have been in control of California for a very long time now and the state in even worse condition than it was under Reagan. So, what does that say about liberal ideas?

  • mike from sagle posted at 11:40 am on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    mike from sagle Posts: 2474

    "The fascist like Limbaugh and Beck have given you the right to hate"

    You're confused. The hate on this blog comes from the left- such as that shamelessly launched by a leftist who feels those he disagrees with should die a horrible death. The Tea Party doesnt "hate" anyone or anything- it was OWS who created the atmosphere of hate and fear which led to murders, rapes, beatings, arson, and violence of all manner. Behavior is proof of the puddin, pal.

    Is it 'just me' or does a new blogger here sound a whole lot like an old one?

  • WML posted at 9:27 am on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    WML Posts: 665

    @Dover Dave - post of 9:03 a.m. - Good question re: Just Me.

  • Dover Dave posted at 9:03 am on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Dover Dave Posts: 815

    Just Me: "Wow, way to classify an entire group of people to further your own repugs and teatards are all the same...."

    Do you bother reading what you write?

  • Just Me posted at 6:03 am on Sat, Feb 9, 2013.

    Just Me Posts: 17

    Wow, way to classify an entire group of people to further your own repugs and teatards are all the same, blame Liberals for ALL your problems yet don't even bother to look in your own backyard. The fascist like Limbaugh and Beck have given you the right to hate and make crazy generalizations about your fellow Americans...btw I'm from California too and that state started going in the crapper when Reagan took over don't delude yourself...

  • WML posted at 10:05 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    WML Posts: 665

    @Wilson - post of 9:06 pm - I must disagree with you re: Portland being the homosexual headquarters of the west coast. I believe that distinction goes to Tacoma, Wa. My daughter lives in Portland. Taxes are high, wages are low, utilities are higher than most other Oregon cities and crime is a problem.

    Seattle has just been given the distinction of being the 10th most difficult city in the country to drive in due to population density.

    Re: Texas and Wynhausen - I agree. I've known several people that have lived in Texas and they hated the weather. They did like the political philosophy of live and let live.

    Bill Litsinger

  • wilson posted at 9:06 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    wilson Posts: 1071

    Bob - Seattle and Portland? These are good examples of well run cities to you ?? O M G !!! Have you truly lost your mind? Over-regulated and over-taxed are the first things to come to mind--secondly, Portland is where Molly O'Reilly and buddy Steve were trained- Look at how that turned out -- Portland is also the Queer capital of the west coast - not working out well for family growth -

  • Viper posted at 7:21 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    It looks like this opinion piece nails the problem perfectly. It is all history and is being repeated daily in Washington D.C. Bend over; your 401 K's and other retirement accounts are about to be inhaled by the federal government. Socialism and liberalism go hand in hand with the liberal mindset of intolerance and totalitarianism.

  • Viper posted at 7:16 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    Conservative financial policies are the only financial policies that work for everyone. Spending more that one earns, whether state, federal, or personal, just does not work well. Too much logic here for liberals to understand. Liberals still stand for in-tolerance and totalitarianism.

  • Viper posted at 7:14 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    And they are all loosers. What a shame to have wasted so much much time and money.

  • Viper posted at 7:12 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654


  • Viper posted at 7:11 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    And we all know how financially well off all democratic cities have become. NOT so well off..

  • Viper posted at 7:09 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Viper Posts: 654

    California in in the red because the liberal politicans spend too much money and the unions have been left to steal everything manageable. Prop 13 stopped the massive spending for awhile.
    And yes I recommend we not pass the school levy in Sandpoint this year.

  • capc832ret posted at 6:21 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    capc832ret Posts: 76

    Looks like red dawn this shoe fits you well,now pack you liberal fanny up and get!!!!

  • leechstomper posted at 5:09 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    leechstomper Posts: 1454

    HWIS: You said it all with that sentence. They are CALIFORNIA Republicans. It ain't the same breed.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 4:16 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Michael, have you ever been to Texas. If you like 90% humidity and 90 degree temperatures, you’ll love Houston. I don’t even have to talk politics to find things I don’t like about it, but the weather is my major issue. Believe it or not, when we lived in Houston I voted for a new man running for the US House of Representative named George HW Bush.

    As for big cities, they are tough to govern. But there are some example of well-functioning cities run by Ds--Seattle, Portland, New York and Boston. How about San Antonio? Most states run by Rs have below average per capita income, not exactly the hallmark of a great state.

    Dave, that didn’t seem to stop you. I guess you agree since you didn't BITE.

  • Dover Dave posted at 2:26 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Dover Dave Posts: 815

    Bob: "Here's the problem, conservatism has been debunked. America knows it has failed us and we are recognizing that we are, at our core, a center-left country. Part of the problem is policies and part of the problem is personalities. The latter has been abundantly clear since 2000."

    Obvious bait, Bob. You need to disguise it a little better or make it more nuanced for anyone to strike at it.

  • Here's What I Say posted at 2:16 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Here's What I Say Posts: 1240

    The majority of Sandpoint City council is Repubs. from California. And city hall loves to spend,, spend, spend.

  • strangel posted at 12:42 pm on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    strangel Posts: 93

    Being from Idaho i don't know why all the Californians feel a need to come here, but here's what I've seen over the years. In the early to mid seventies there was a large immigration of Californians to Bonner county, but they were the carpenters, hippies, and people that just wanted to get away from something. They didn't come here and try to change things, they assimilated and were good people. They were a benefit to the community and i didn't check, but I would bet they were liberal.
    In the most recent immigration it's been more of the people with money from southern Cal that come here and want to immediately change things, make more money, influence politics, and either become a cop or run for office. It seems like most of them are conservatives.
    I'm not saying one is better than the other, but if you don't like it then don't come back or leave. That's your right.

    As for Texas, Bob I spent three years there in the military and i agree with you. I've never been to a worse place in my life and I spent two years in Korea. If you think Bush was bad, Rick Perry is much worse. He wants to cut the federal government but yet a couple years back he cut the budget of his state fire agencies so bad that they were out of money the first month of fire season. What this meant was there were 10,000 federal firefighters sent down that spent the entire summer in his state fighting fires. Those are the jobs that are being cut now to make the conservatives happy. Maybe they should be specific when they say cut the size of government. The ones that have the power to do that cut from the bottom not their own level where true savings would be seen.

  • MichaelN posted at 11:46 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    MichaelN Posts: 502

    So Bob, why is it that so many of the states and cities that are failing are run by democrats? Why should we take the example of a blue run state, California, and mimic it? Knowing full well that it doesn't work. It's a failure. It's broken. Can it be fixed? I don't know the answer, but I do know that borrowing more money, raising taxes on the constituency, and spending more borrowed money won't fix a problem, it will only prolong it.

    You just hate Texas because the Bush's live there. I love that state.

    I'm with Dan, I'm glad I left California, and I will never go back.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 11:17 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    I've lived in California, Texas, Oregon, Washington and Idaho. I've visited every state in continental US except West Virginia and Nebraska. Of the places we've live, Texas is the worst. Yes, I'm glad I left California because of the high population. But, given a choice, I'd take California over Texas any time.

    Steve, if you're right, California got the seniors into life boats and scuttled the ship. Great idea!

    Here's the problem, conservatism has been debunked. America knows it has failed us and we are recognizing that we are, at our core, a center-left country. Part of the problem is policies and part of the problem is personalities. The latter has been abundantly clear since 2000.

  • capnbutch posted at 10:40 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    capnbutch Posts: 140


    I do not understand what an Rs is. As a Conservative, I speak for myself.

    I was a PCA for 12-years. I once ran a business that deliberately hired people just out of jail and taught them to do productive work. Because we did not tell them that it was a charity and that it failed to generate a profit, they regained their dignity. Of our released incarcerates, more than half stayed out of jail.

    When someone knows you are doing charity, it frequently isn't.

    As a victim of Left-Wing Extremism I can assure you that Democrats are hateful. When we deny our mistakes, we fall victim to more mistakes.

    Ease off.

  • Steve Hatcher posted at 10:19 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Steve Hatcher Posts: 2570

    If California is so great for business, why are they considering and leaving in droves?

    In any case Prop 13 was a lifesaver for seniors who were forced to sell due to the unfair practice of assessments.

  • Dover Dave posted at 10:06 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Dover Dave Posts: 815

    Repeating myself from another post, but in my opinion people are either for equal rules (conservatives) or equal outcomes (liberals), and all other arguments emanate from this and are secondary. Liberals like Andrew Breitbart do occasionally change when they do an honest assessment of the damage their policies cause, but for the most part liberalism is an emotional choice, not a thinking one, so rational arguments don’t work. What makes it so frustrating for conservatives and causes them to occasionally lose their composure is that the damage is so predictable. Liberals - like children who prefer candy to broccoli – are into immediate gratification and don’t want to be preached to about no stinking cavities.

  • WML posted at 9:57 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    WML Posts: 665

    Don't ask Wynhausen or any other liberal why they leave a state with high taxes, high crime rates, poor schools, dirty air or racial minorities. They won't tell you the truth.

    Liberals should stop talking and start doing. They should do what they preach others to do, but I doubt that will ever happen.

    Bill Litsinger

  • bigdan posted at 9:54 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    bigdan Posts: 2784

    Prop 13 was not what has caused the demise of California. In fact, in the wake of Prop 13 the state formed a program called CASH that allowed schools to tap into emergency funding for facilities repairs. Prop 13 created a boom in consumer spending in California which led to higher tax revenues for the State.

    I lived through the onset of Prop 13 and after the first year or two, after the public agencies who held us all hostage because they opposed Prop 13, things became incredibly better.

    Up until recently our company did a great deal of work in California with schools and public agencies. Of course a state that doesn't understand that they can't keep allowing politicians to making sweet heart deals with public employee unions so they will support the same politicians in the next election because it will break them have but only a few options. One, they can raise taxes, however that has proven to start a large exodus from the state or two, renegotiate the contracts that should have never been negotiated.

    It was evident to me the state was going to south which was one of a few reasons I left there in 1996 and will never go back.

    Good letter Mr. Hoskinson

  • reddawn posted at 9:49 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    @capnbutch, You might want to read your Rs posts. I feel that some of these Rs start with a foul attack on Dems first. Besides the Dems do out number Rs in Northern Idaho. Like I have said before those who put their name up I give them credit. However as a women I would never open myself up to the abuse of the Rs I have seen. As seen below from Capc8 his posts have been totally out of control and that is not the first time. Your post started out great and then you undid it by calling Dems hateful. I am not hateful, I have given my life to the disabled, the sick. I am a great neighbor, I will help a person cross the street, however I never ask what polical party they are with. None of my friends who raise money for a good cause ever ask what party your with. We dont care what religiion you are, what race you are, who you love. It is giving love that counts. Most Dems dont even visit this site, even I very seldom do. I work long hours. I do check in to see if the regulars have grown at all or if the addiction of abuse is still out of hand. I think to much negitive talk shows who lie for the shake of money, sell fear can and has created an illness of fear. Which in return has ampted up the anger, rage, creating more killing, even in Bonner county. The sad part is energy is real, like standing in line at the store, one bad apple can get folks angrey, and the poor person behind the till has to endure it the most. This comment site is out of hand, maybe it is time for all to put their real names up, then just maybe it would become more respectfull. Who knows.

  • MichaelN posted at 9:39 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    MichaelN Posts: 502

    Bob, honest question, "Why did you leave the sunny state of California?" From reading you posts on this site over the past few years, it seems that you are trying to spread the disease that is crumbling California. I almost think you are narcissistic enough to believe that all these gun toting conservative republicans in North Idaho need saving, and you are the answer. It would appear to me that sunny California could use your help more than us, so why did you leave? Are you hear to save us all? lol. Thanks, but no thanks.

  • WML posted at 9:31 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    WML Posts: 665

    Re: the blog of 6:03 am - Feb. 8. According to the 2010 census California has a population of 39,000,000. But because it is a coastal state and a state that borders a 3rd world country, the census burea estimates the actual number is probably about 40,000,000. California has approximately 3% more government employees than the national average. They are experiencing white flight, although the politically correct call it "Wealth Flight." Some of the school districts teach students in as many as 5 foreighn languages and the absentee rate in many minority districts is 30-35% higher than in white school districts.

    This is not something that anyone made up. This is what Governor Brown stated when he was making excuses for his problematic tenure as governor. What does this have to do with right wing republicans???

    Bill Litsinger

    @Bob Wynhausen - post of 9:06 am - Is the governor a drop out or did he join the seminary to become a cathoilc priest???

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 9:06 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Really, OldMan, the fact that Jerry Brown went to Santa Clara but didn't graduate from Santa Clare is something you're concerned about. Well, I don' blame you. Substance in not in your wheelhouse, so, go ahead, hack away.

    But, think about this. In addition to Jerry Brown and Gavin Newsome, other luminaries like Leon Panetta, Janet Napolitano and Dee Dee Myers also attended Santa Clara. Some even graduated. Not bad for a tiny school.

  • capnbutch posted at 8:47 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    capnbutch Posts: 140

    I sure wish we could find a better way to say these things. This letter only drives the people with whom we so desperately need dialog off the deep end.

    We seem just as rude and hateful as the Democrats.

    There has got to be a better way to express ourselves and the person who finds it will be one hot person!

  • reddawn posted at 7:47 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    Cap, get some help, You have fallen from grace. We have some good church pastors you can talk to in town. Besides your health will be effected by such self distain for yourself . Really, you have lost it. Give Wallace a call, maybe he can help you. You are out of control. Peace be with you.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 7:22 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Bruce, I'm not just talking about today. I'm talking year round. I'm sure some California produce finds its way to our stores.

    But, hasn't that regulation for truck refrigeration units been in effect for over 8 years and as of January requires units 8 years or older to comply. That sure doesn't sound like an irrational regulatory scheme to keep carcinogens out of the air. Sure, it may hurt a few truckers, but I suspect most of them will be fine.

    It's almost always the case that regulations for the benefit of the many hurt a few. Remember the fight over grass seed field burning-hurt a few farmers but it helped a lot of asthmatics.

  • Old Cop posted at 7:18 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    I love the way Bobby twists the truth around where it isn't recognizable anymore. The Wyndi One by carefully parsing his words would have us believe that Jerry Brown was a graduate of Santa Clara Univ, Bobby's alma mater. If my memory serves me right which it does most of the time, Jerry found Santa Clara wanting and left after his freshman year when he decided to become a priest instead of a bean counter. Gavin Newsom, the Lt Gov did graduate from Santa Clara. His ex wife is Kimberly Guilfoyle who often appears on Fox News usually on Megan Kelly's show. Megan's show 10:00 am til noon is great.
    Ooh Bobby! You are so wrong, California's problems were caused solely by trying to do so much for so many. Those Knotheaded liberal politicians had no more sense than 'Lash or you.

  • Sandpointman posted at 6:03 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Sandpointman Posts: 598

    It needs to be taken for granted that all right wing republicans will always give vent to the malignity that is in their minds when opportunity offers

  • Bruce Johnson posted at 6:00 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    Bruce Johnson Posts: 725

    Bob, the commodities you referenced are coming out of Yuma this time of year, thats Arizona the last time I checked. But thanks for the lesson on the business I am immersed in 24/7.

  • backlash posted at 5:50 am on Fri, Feb 8, 2013.

    backlash Posts: 1509

    I think I smell the scent of sour grapes over the election mixed with an unmistakable aroma of of b.s. to cover up conservative's responsibility in crashing the economy. California is having financial problems just like the entire world is right now and to blame their financial problems on liberals is about as correct as the many predictions made by conservatives in the last election cycle.

    It is not love that is blind, but jealousy.
    Lawrence Durrell

    Many factors : Banks and Wall Street and deregulation cause trillions in capital destruction and California is hit hard. Unfunded wars and quest for empire with 800 bases around the world and spending as much as the entire world on our military. Outsourcing millions of jobs to China, India and so on. Prop 13 is certainly a factor. Over generous retirement packages for government employees.
    People scamming the safety net but to get them off you need jobs for them to go to.
    Too many people have come to California. Southern California has 23,000,000 in a land mass 2/3 the size of Idaho that only has 1,500,000 people.

    It is all the fault of liberals is as stupid as it gets!

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 11:54 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Really Dave, that time of the month for you again? Maybe a little testosterone will do the trick.

    Perki, I'm sure you're right. Lots of bargains. But you better hurry. Foreclosures are down, prices are heading up, and so is sales volume.

  • Perki posted at 11:08 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 604

    Thats al right Bob, I will let all the people I know down there do that. Houses that were going for $350,000 4 years ago can be bought all day long for $145,000 now. I know several who have done it.

  • Dover Dave posted at 7:40 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    Dover Dave Posts: 815

    Liberals have a history of destroying cities from a voting booth then fleeing the consequences of their votes; then after relocating they start anew and if not stopped destroy the new place. Thanks liberals.

    Bob, we went through this a month ago. Your short term memory is gone and you can only recall things from lo those many years ago, like soiling your diapers. Or was that yesterday?

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 6:48 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Actually Bill, both the Governor and the Lt Gov are both from Santa Clara.

    If that were true Perki, you should be in California buying up bargains.

    So, Dave, what was the cause of the boom in the 90's?

  • capc832ret posted at 6:44 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    capc832ret Posts: 76

    Liberals are nothing but low life pot smoking abortion baby killers who's only abilities on life is to suck the life out of those who actually have money.without those who are the producers,they would all to make sure hey can still float to the top ,they brought us a tyrannical idiot named Obama.he's proof that evolution did not work,as he has a single cell for a brain.yes the libs will leave hear,as they will shrivel up if left to their own ways.if you want them to leave,just don't go into their stores and buy jack from them.I can name at least three or four,fosters crossing,fritz fry pan,finnin mic danaold, zanny zebra.these are those who want your money,but don't want you.send them packing!

  • Dover Dave posted at 5:44 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    Dover Dave Posts: 815

    Bob still thinks the Clinton tax hike in the early 90's was responsible for the booming economy that followed, so he' understandably confused by stagnant economy in California and by the flight of people and businesses from the state.

  • Perki posted at 5:20 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 604

    Bob, the way those property values have fallen in the last several years I would guess that lots of properties are being taxed at considerably MORE than todays values.

  • WML posted at 4:47 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    WML Posts: 665

    @Bob Wynhausen - post of 4:25 pm - Bob, I do understand Prop 13. It is true that commercial property did fare very well with Prop 13, but local communities can and have in the past passed SAD's (special assessment districts) that allow the locals to pay more for schools, police, fire and whatever. The problem is that the majority of tax payers don't trust those that spend their money, so very few SAD's get passed. Don't blame Prop 13 or the tax payer, blame the useless politicians.

    The real problem with California is that day by day they have more takers and fewer givers. If you don't believe me Bob, just ask your buddy fromthe University of Santa Clara, he works somewhere in Sacramento. He was crying in his beer a couple of weeks ago because of an illness infecting California called "Wealth Flight."

    You can only go to the well so often before you hit sand.

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 4:25 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Perki, I guess you and Bill don't understand how Prop 13 works. In 1978 tax values were set at fair market value with an allowance for very small upward adjustments. The tax was set at 1%, or less, of that value. When a property sold, the tax base was reset to the selling price. While there are still a few properties with that old 1978 tax value, those that have changed hands in the meantime are valued, for the most part, at less than current market. So property tax revenue has been substantially limited.

    The biggest problem is a loophole that allows most commercial property to avoid tax increases. That is costing the state and its residents a bundle. So Prop 13 remains a big problem, a much bigger problem than liberal politics.

    Bruce, if what you are saying about the farm industry in California were true, do you really think we'd see vegetables as cheap as they are. More often than not broccoli and cauliflower are less than $1/#. Much of the produce in our stores comes from California and is quite reasonably priced. If you were right, those prices would be through the roof.

  • CoolHandLuke posted at 3:53 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    CoolHandLuke Posts: 2

    Yeah! Who wants safe streets and clean air? I'm an Idaho native and I have always thought the "gate shutting" transplants are the most anti-government people you can find. At some point, this legend of a government-less utopia that is Idaho spread throughout the golden hills of California. Regulation and taxation are necessities. I agree that taxes shouldn't be over-burdensome to the citizenry, and we should balance our spending as much as possible, but the truth of the matter is that Idaho gets major subsidies from the feds (schools, roads, emergency relief, etc), yet we brag about how low our taxes are here compared to states like California. News flash...We don't do it all on our own!

  • WML posted at 3:31 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    WML Posts: 665

    I just got back from 21 days in sunny so Cal. When I arrived on Jan. 17th gas was 3.61. When I left Tuesday evening it was 3.99. When I turned in my rental car (Alamo) my taxes on the entire bill due were 25%. All of the taxes were state taxes except a 1% fuel surcharge that goes to the feds. Gas tax in California is .48 cents per gallon. California is losing over 500 jobs per day to more business friendly states, Texas gets about 300 of those jobs lost every day. California has the highest state income tax rate in the country. The sales tax in California in many cities is near 9.25%.

    Prop 13 is not that big of a deal anymore. I think less than 1-2% of the homes that were eligable in 1978 are still held by the same owner. Public service pensions are a big deal. California has one of the highest rates of people on public assistance (food stamps, Sec. 8, energy assistance, public transportation subsidies and the like).

    Liberals control Sacramento, the assembly and the senate. They have some of the toughest gun control laws in the nation and yet have one of the highest gun crime rates in the nation. Thye have some of the lowest test scores in the country, spend more per pupil than the national average and have a very high H.S drop out rate.

    Go back about 45 years and the exact opposite was true. California is run by liberals and has a very high % of minorities. You do the logic. Now for the GOOD news, California does have nice weather in the winter.

    Peace to all!!! Bill Litsinger

  • bonnerben posted at 2:48 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    bonnerben Posts: 291

    Why am I not surprised that Bob would blame a tax saving measure on the demise of California schools. At the time prop 13 passed in 1978, many seniors, and others on fixed incomes, were being driven out of their homes because they could not afford the annual increases on their property taxes. Unlike income tax, home owners are forced to pay increasing amounts on an asset they do not derive annual income from. The demise of the California school system comes from excessive spending by school boards and administrators, misguided priorities, and parents who are both indifferent and uncaring as to what is occurring in their local schools. Idaho does not have prop 13, schools are a large portion of our property taxes, sales of timber from Idaho lands goes to the educational system, lottery monies go to the educational system, and they still have to use a levy system to fund their budgets.

    California holds the distinction of having the highest sales tax, the highest personal income tax rates, and the highest corporate tax rates in the nation. With all of that income, why are they still going broke? As is true with our federal government, California does not have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem.

    @Bruce Johnson - Excellent blog! You hit the head of one of the many nails that are sealing the coffin of the California economy. Also, don't forget the BIG red elephant in the California living room...illegal immigration.

    I sure hope Phil Mickelson moves to North Idaho and buys one of those monster homes.

  • Bruce Johnson posted at 1:48 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    Bruce Johnson Posts: 725

    I love this letter
    I have made a decent living hauling fresh produce out of California for 37 years during the summer harvest. I really started to see the repercussions of the the liberal state in the last ten , however. Regulation and enviromentally driven policy has all but decimated the multi-bilion dollar farming industry, to which 100's of thousands of jobs are linked nationwide. A few years back they cut off the water from the delta that supplied the Central Valley's farmers to supposedly protect some inch long smelt that was maybe being threathened. Tens of thousands workers were left with no job not to mention 100 year old farms turning to dust and the bread basket of America further threathened.It goes on and on.
    The latest and possibly the final nail in my business coffin, the California EPA (good grief), has determined that any refrigerated semi-trailer with a cooling unit over 5 years is prohibited from hauling in and out of the state. They say the emissions from the 'units' causes cancer...That cuts out 90% of my carriers and will spell bankruptcy for most of them . The growers there are going to have a devil of a time moving their grapes, fruit, and melons etc.
    There is no end to the progressives agendas, hence the name progressive, it progresses and never stops. I wonder what we are going to eat when they claim all the food and water...

  • Perki posted at 1:26 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    Perki Posts: 604

    Bob, prop 13 is almost non exixtant in Calif. any more. Any house that was sold or re-fied since its passing is not eligible. I seriously doubt if 1% of homeowners are eligible anymore so your logic won't work. It has much more to do with liberal give aways than any other cause.

  • mike from sagle posted at 12:32 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    mike from sagle Posts: 2474

    So now liberals are blaming the state of California on the conservatives. That's funny as they're also doing the same thing re Detroit, Chicago, DC, our economy, the mideast wars- actually can't think of a single thing wrong for which liberals will accept responsibility- all they do is blame their opposition. Imagine that.

    “He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.”--Benjamin Franklin

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 12:22 pm on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Leech, no doubt California has a lot of issues, but, the keystone problem is Prop 13. Unlike some, I prefer to focus on primary problems and leave the secondary ones til later.

    Usually, if you deal with the big issues, the little ones take care of themselves.

  • Laurie Wadkins posted at 11:58 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    Laurie Wadkins Posts: 638

    ..... Ahhh... I see. So we're supposed to send Bob the Wise packing, and let's do that thing that Bill L. suggested awhile back, the toll booth where we can weed out the liberals and charge to support the DSBA. Can't enter unless you are packing some heat, and have pieces of fresh red venison stuck between your teeth. Geese.....
    ..... You can't make whipped cream from soured milk... accept the fact that you are the beast you are and you come with baggage.

  • reddawn posted at 11:51 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    Like I said Northern Idaho is mostly Dems, always has been, this is why the haters keep moving North. So all you bullies on here dont think we do outnumber Rs here are in la la land. I only know one Republican Women, One. So when your out old man and start your mouth just be aware most of us are Dems.

  • leechstomper posted at 11:37 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    leechstomper Posts: 1454

    I knew this would bring out the nutjobs with blinders. Bob blames prop 13 but ignores the high percentage of workers in California that are public employees with unsustainable benefits. Reddawn.....well shes Reddawn. She never noticed that Idaho became right to work in the late 70's - before the main migration began. She also has failed to notice that Kootenai county is the only Democratic county in all of Idaho much less North Idaho. She is apparently so blinded that she never noticed the full sized John Birch Society billboard in Careywood urging us to get out of the UN now. It only was there for years in the late sixties and early seventies so it was easy to miss.

    Yep, the area was really liberal in the olden days. It is just more stuff being rewritten in the liberals mantra of revisionist history.

  • Rcsonntag posted at 11:04 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    Rcsonntag Posts: 18

    "Stop them at ANY COST? I hope the police come and get your guns. I'll bet you have a lot. You sound like a very dangerous individual.

  • reddawn posted at 10:22 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    reddawn Posts: 1707

    Michael, I have lived here all my life. It was when the Republicans who came here with their big bank roles, buiding your monster homes raising our taxes, your big boats, your so called morals that changed our lifes.Then you brought in a right to work laws and pay such low wages many have to go on food stamps. You can visit, however keep your negitve attitude to yourself. You need to wake up, Northern Idaho is mostly Dems, if you want to hang with the Rs you need to go to Boise. To bad you didnt mention the business, they probley pay low wages keep their life style and complain about life. They should probley move back to where they came from.

  • Old Cop posted at 10:19 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    Old Cop Posts: 3259

    I could see the headlights coming more than thirty years ago Michael. I tried to warn them then that the bridge was washed out ahead. They didn't listen

  • Bob Wynhausen posted at 10:10 am on Thu, Feb 7, 2013.

    Bob Wynhausen Posts: 9141

    Michael, I'm one of those Southern California transplants, although I left more than 40 years ago. It wasn't the liberals who put California on the ropes, the truth is quite the opposite. It was Proposition 13, which, if memory serves, was a conservative tax cutting effort.

    The magic of Prop 13 was that it turned the best K-12 public education program in the country into the worst. And much of the California's problems are the fallout from the failure of the public schools.

    We have a school levy coming up in early March. If we don't want to see us looking like California, we must pass that levy.